Cheetah engine setback 1940-41

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Cheetah engine setback 1940-41

#1

Post by Andy H » 16 Aug 2009, 20:36

At a meeting of the Air Ministry held on Jan 8th 1941 the Sec of State for Air, stated in his final remarks

"
Shortage in advanced Trainers, and the setback to the Cheetah engine"
Can anyone expand on this setback?

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Re: Cheetah engine setback 1940-41

#2

Post by phylo_roadking » 16 Aug 2009, 21:19

Interesting. You meant the Armstrong-Siddeley Cheetah radial? http://www.aarg.com.au/CheetahEngine.htm

EDIT - Andy, I've had a look round. There's not a lot showing up in Net sources, but I'm wondering if it was that the Cheetah, a derivation of the pre-war Lynx/Lynx Major, was regarded as underpowered? Certainly there were always doubts about the Anson's ability to stay in the air on one A-S Cheetah. There seems to have been a war-long series of developments -from Wiki...
Lynx V (Lynx Major)
1930, 230 hp (171 kW).
Cheetah V
1935, 270 hp (201 kW) at 2,100 rpm.
Cheetah VA
1935, 285 hp (212 kW) at 2,425 rpm.
Cheetah VI
1935, 307 hp (229 kW) at 2,425 rpm.
Cheetah VIA
1936, as Mk VI but with Mk IX cylinders.
Cheetah XCheetah IX
1937, 345 hp (257 kW) at 2,425 rpm.
Cheetah X
1938, 375 hp (280 kW) at 2,300 rpm.
Cheetah XI
345 hp (257 kW) at 2,425 rpm, geared version of Cheetah X.
Cheetah XII
Similar to Mk X, adapted for target drone aircraft.
Cheetah XV
420 hp (313 kW) at 2,425 rpm.
Cheetah XVII
1948, 385 hp (287 kW) at 2,425 rpm.
Cheetah XVIII
385 hp (287 kW) at 2,425 rpm, carburettor modified for aerobatics.
Cheetah XIX
355 hp (265 kW) at 2,425 rpm
Cheetah 25
345 hp (257 kW) at 2,425 rpm, Cheetah XV uprated to 475 hp (355 kW) at 2,700 rpm, modified constant-speed unit.
Cheetah 26
385 hp (287 kW).
Cheetah 27
1948, 385 hp (287 kW).
...but if you look at the power outputs :wink: they seem to go up then back down then up again like a sine curve! One major change was that the Cheetah was evetually "blown" with a supercharger; I wonder if it's that development that was delayed? Or was the "problem" perhaps one of the LESS powerful versions???

Certainly the RAF was always short of trainers, especially early-war; in 1940 particularly, they were short of multi-engioned bomber-trainers like the Anson and Airpseed Oxford, exacerbated by Coastal COmmand using them for the first 18 months of the war....hence the Air Ministry approaching Italy for the Caproni recce-bomber family of flying scrap! :lol:

However - to be fair, there was one MAJOR plus point for the Cheetah - it was frighteningly durable! The Air Ministry licensed 1,200 flying hours between overhauls, a record for its class then!


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Re: Cheetah engine setback 1940-41

#3

Post by Andy H » 16 Aug 2009, 22:02

Hi Phylo

I had alook around the net and essentially found what you've posted, with the odd exception.

The 'power output' option is certainly one possibilty which I'll dig around further

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Re: Cheetah engine setback 1940-41

#4

Post by phylo_roadking » 16 Aug 2009, 22:06

It might be worth checking combat aircraft production in the UK with trainer production through 1941; there are several things to look out for...

In October 1940 - after the Emergency spurt of production from June to October - the MAP went back to it's long-range growth plans, the ones that had temporarily been suspended after Dunkirk in favour of throwing priority at aircraft production. However....they seem to just have mapped the "longrange" improvement and growth curves onto the high piints of the Emergency spurt - and according to Poston there wasn't a hope of maintaining these levels. Raw materials were nearly exhausted, and the MAP was having to warn maufacturers AGAINST excessive overtime and Sunday shifts! :lol:

At the same time - through late 1940 and into 1941 there were issues with a number of aircraft manufacturers and parts suppliers being hit by the Luftwaffe - Short's works on 9th and 15th August 1940; the heavy raid on a Vickers' factory in the Home Counties on 4th September; the heavy day raid on Bristol on 25th September, the effects of which were aggravated by an earlier night raid on the 22nd August; and finally the heavy day raid on the Supermarine Aviation Works on 26th September. The period of heavy night bombing began on 7th September. On 1st December the Supermarine works were badly bombed at night, on 14th November Coventry was 'blitzed', and from 19th to 22nd December there were heavy raids on Birmingham...

Interestingly, one of the major essential suppliers hit in that period was BTH (British Thomson-Houston), the magneto manufacturer on the outskirts of Coventry, one of THE major losses of the Coventry attack along with the Coventry ordnance Works and Triumph :wink: Rhe loss of BTH was a major blow for the British aviation industry...

So production problems could have been an issue also...given that through until October 1940 combat aircraft had been given priority over everything...it COULD be that the growth of Cheetah production didn't progress as needed...?

EDIT - do we know where Arnstong-Siddeley produced the Cheetah? :wink:

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Re: Cheetah engine setback 1940-41

#5

Post by peeved » 16 Aug 2009, 22:34

From http://books.google.fi/books?id=1RheQNq ... ed&f=false
"The raid on 19th saw three bombs hit the factory, one landing squarely on the house next to No2 Gate, another hitting the Aero Engine Fitting and Final Build Shop, where work was in progress on the Cheetah Radial engine."

Markus

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Re: Cheetah engine setback 1940-41

#6

Post by Andy H » 16 Aug 2009, 22:38

Thanks Phylo for pointing the way and to Peeved for finding the answer

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Re: Cheetah engine setback 1940-41

#7

Post by phylo_roadking » 16 Aug 2009, 23:05

Excellent, Markus! :D

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Re: Cheetah engine setback 1940-41

#8

Post by Andy H » 02 Jun 2010, 22:57

Found this in a Air Ministry file dated Dec'40
Magneto capacity at present damages and soon may cripple engine production.
Over one-half of all magnetos were produced by British Thomson-Houston.
This wqrks, at Coventry, was damaged by bombs. Much labour disappeared and
could nbt be attracted to Coventry again.
The. balance of Magneto production is in the keeping of Rotax and Simms.
Rotax has been dispersed. Simms is too small and nothing need be done.
Many Cheetah engines await magnetos.
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Re: Cheetah engine setback 1940-41

#9

Post by Andy H » 20 Apr 2012, 15:51

Found this snippet to add to earlier posts
T he a d v a n c ed t r a i n er p o s i t i on h as s ince t h en been e m b a r r a s s ed s t i ll f u r t h er
by t he b omb i ng of C o v e n t r y, w i th i ts d a m a ge to C h e e t ah e n g i ne p r o d u c t i o n.
As a d i r e ct cons equence of t h is d i s a s t e r, we h a ve on o ur h a n ds mo re t h an
one h u n d r ed O x f o r ds w h i ch we a re u n a b le to e n g i n e.
Yet d u r i ng t he s ame p e r i od t he A ir M i n i s t ry h a ve been s e n d i ng C h e e t a hs o ut
of t he c o u n t r y. Of t h is we m a ke no c o m p l a i nt now. B ut t h e se e x p l a n a t i o ns a re
needed to compl e te t he p i c t u re p r o v i d ed in t he S e c r e t a ry of S t a t e 's p a p e r.
CAB 66/15/29 dated 11/03/41

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Re: Cheetah engine setback 1940-41

#10

Post by waldzee » 20 Apr 2012, 16:09

The Anson production lines were slated to be moved to Canada to support the BCATP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Anson
& for various tawdry reasons the Canadian aircraft industry had early war start up concerns.
American designed ( sometin=mes built ) engines were substituted.

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Re: Cheetah engine setback 1940-41

#11

Post by Andy H » 28 Aug 2013, 17:54

Hi

As the war in Europe drew to its end the thorny issue of exports to Spain was on the horizon.
One of the products the Spanish were after was the Cheetah engine.
The Hispano-Suiza Aircraft Company have enquired about the purchase of 100 Armstrong-Siddeley " Cheetah " engines of 450 h.p. for fitting to their conversion trainers.
CAB/66/64/30 Supplying Spain

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Re: Cheetah engine setback 1940-41

#12

Post by Ironmachine » 28 Aug 2013, 20:50

HISPANO SUIZA HS-42/HISPANO AVIACIÓN HA-43
Designed as an advanced multi-purpose trainer aircraft capable of carrying out flight training and fighter, bomber, reconnaissance, photography, radio communications, machine gun and torpedo training tasks, the HS42 was a low-wing, closed-cabin monoplane with a retractable undercarriage. It was built of wood and steel tubing with duralumin, fabric and plywood covering, and the moving parts were made of steel tubing with fabric covering. In light of the industrial difficulties at the time, the prototype and the first series had a 7-cylinder 430/460-hp Piaggio P.VII C.16 radial engine ‘cannibalized’ from the Ca 131, which powered an Alfa Romeo propeller with counter-clockwise rotation. It also had wheel spats and oleopneumatic shock absorbers in a fixed undercarriage adapted from the Fokker D.XXI – the manufacture of which had been initiated by the SAF155 in Alicante during the war.
This version was known as the HS-42A. After the entry into service of the first 15 aircraft with the above engine, the following units received a 390-hp Armstrong-Siddeley Cheetah XXV engine. This version, which was also equipped with a sliding cockpit hood instead of a folding one, was known as the HS-42B. Following this, a new batch of Cheetah XXVII engines resulted in the HS-42D.1 and D.2 versions. Once the Italian engines had all been used, the first fifteen HS42As were also refitted with this British engine, and following certain adjustments it was renamed the HS 42D.3, while the first HS-42B (no. 16 of the factory) was reconverted into a variation with a retractable landing gear known as the HA-43 and following its modification, the HA-43D. 13 units of this variation were built, and it had its maiden flight in October 1949.
Another 10 (or 11, according to some sources) were then built with a fixed undercarriage and renamed the HS (HA)-42D.4. In total, around 115 aircraft were supplied to provide a range of training services for the Air Force —which called them all ES-6s— at El Copero (Seville) and Jerez (Cádiz) and the Spanish Air Force Academy of San Javier (Murcia) until the arrival of American material following the Accords of 1953.
http://www.fundacionhelice.com/es/node/577

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