Royal Navy Night Tactics

[Carl Schwamberger]

In the South pacific both the USN & IJN found the use of searchlights to be very tricky in night combat. They were essential in identification of targets in many specific cases. But, in all cases they instantly gave away the location of the using ship.A high degree of judgement & skill was required for their use.

Did the RN train for reduced use of search lights as they gained skill with their fire control radars? This question revolves around 1940-42 (not much interested in developments from 1943.) I'm unfamilar with how fast the RN ability with radar fire control developed in the early years.

Thanks

[verdenpark]

According to R.A. Burt in "British Battleships, 1919 - 1939" ISBN 1-85409-068-2, pages 45 - 47, RADAR was being fitted to the big ships from 1939. Namely the series type 79. By 1940 types 279, 281, 282, 285, and 286, were in service, and the 272, 273, 284's were about by 1941. All main sets were tuned to an accuracy of +/- 50 yards, though ranges varied.

I cannot find anything about the use of searchlights in my references. On Destroyers they started to be replaced by the type 272/3 series RADARs from 1942.

Hope this helps.

[Dupplin Muir]

I believe a British destroyer (Greyhound?) used its searchlight to illuminate the Italian cruisers at Matapan, prior to the battleships opening fire.

[Carl Schwamberger]

According to R.A. Burt in "British Battleships, 1919 - 1939" ISBN 1-85409-068-2, pages 45 - 47, RADAR was being fitted to the big ships from 1939. Namely the series type 79. By 1940 types 279, 281, 282, 285, and 286, were in service, and the 272, 273, 284's were about by 1941. All main sets were tuned to an accuracy of +/- 50 yards, though ranges varied.

I cannot find anything about the use of searchlights in my references. On Destroyers they started to be replaced by the type 272/3 series RADARs from 1942.

Hope this helps.

My question I guess, is in part how well trained or familar the RN commanders were with the radar. On the USN side there was a difference between the commanders of 1942 in how well they used the radars. Some like Adm Lee had been working with it since the earliest days of 1938-39 & their battle sucess had a strong connection to it. Others clearly failed to grasp the benefit & lost any benefit. Since there were so few surface actions in 1942 between the RN & IJN it is tough to compare with the USN.

[Andy H]

The Assistant Chief of the Naval Staff (ACNS) stated on March 25th 1938 the following priorities for Radar Development:-

First Priority: long-distance warning of approaching aircraft from ships with a fair indication of direction by 50miles @5000ft

Second Priority: range taking of ships from ships for purpose of low angle (LA) fire with accuracy of 1Deg (bearing) to 20,000yds

Third Priority: continuous short range ranging on aircraft upto 5miles and in elevation and bearing with sufficent accuracy for AA control and searchlight purposes.

Radar sets, some 200 were fitted from mid-1940 to DD's and smaller ships.

An excellent publication to get hold of is :-
The Applications of Radar and other Electronic systems in the Royal Navy in WW2, edited by F A Kingsley of The Naval Radar Trust. Published by MacMillan Press 1995 ISBN:0333627482

Regards

Andy H

[Carl Schwamberger]

Thanks Andy. Another increment of info...

[LWD]

My understanding is that the RN practiced night actions significantly more than the US did prior to the war and may have been on a par with the Japanese. It would seem logical that the importance of radar would have been pretty obvious to them. That doesn't mean that it was of course but the early use of radar in their torpedo bombers speaks to it.

[mescal]

My question I guess, is in part how well trained or familar the RN commanders were with the radar.

The RN did not use much radar in the early phases of the war. In particular, in the night battle in the Med in 1940-41, radar played almost no part. Most sighting were made by lookouts.
Cape Passero, Tarigo Convoy, Beta Convoy at least did not involve radar, but sharp lookouts and quick decision-makingon the part of the commander.
(and note that the wiki page on Cape Passero is in error when stating "At 02:15, her fire-control radar detected two Italian destroyers". Ajax only had a 279 air search radar until 1942 -cf. Whitley- which played no role in the action, contrary to some postwar Italian claims)

IMHO, what made the RN so successful in the night actions fought in the Med was its more aggressive doctrine, its advantage in night training, and its tactical role. In most actions, the RN was the attacker, and not tied to any merchantmen, so they had little doubt on "who was who" - which enabled them to strike the first blows.

Here is a quote from Bill Agnew :
"The essence of night fighting is surprise followed by prompt action. [...] If the most effective action is not taken immediately it is unlikely that there will be time to recover".
(quoted in The Struggle for the Middle Sea, p144).

[Carl Schwamberger]

All that makes sense. a commander who is not well practiced at night ops is less likely to make best use of radar when he has it. So, in what actions did the RN use its radar?

[Andy H]

Hi Carl

i. The obvious usage of radar by RN Cruisers to keep tabs on the Bismarck and the subsequent action
ii. HMS Devonshire used her radar to lead the assault force sent to occupy Diego Suarez (May'42) through the narrow confines of Courrier Bay at night and achieve complete surprise.
iii. HMS Harrier a minesweeper was escorting the first convoy to northern Russia (Aug'41) used her Type 271 to steer the convoy through thick fog at the entrance to the White Sea known as Gourlo. The convoy arrived safely much to the surprise of the Russian liason officer in Archangel. The Russian DD captain sent to escort the convoy was 'liquidated' for not finding the convoy in the thick fog

These 3 examples are from the previous publication I stated

Regards

Andy H

[Urmel]

Force K used radar when chasing Italian and German vessels around the central Mediterranean in 1941:

Radar used for gun-laying on Beta convoy: http://www.regiamarina.net/detail_text.asp?nid=67&lid=1

Conjecture, but I believe that the 'sharp-eyed sailor' was actually the radar set. At 0304 hours on 1 December at 12 nm no amount of carrots will make you see a vessel. http://crusaderproject.wordpress.com/20 ... -k-report/

Also destroyers: Italian cruisers da Barbiano and di Giussano were sunk with the help of radar off Cape Bon in December 1941: http://www.ww2f.com/naval-war-mediterre ... ssano.html

[Carl Schwamberger]

Force K used radar when chasing Italian and German vessels around the central Mediterranean in 1941:

Radar used for gun-laying on Beta convoy: http://www.regiamarina.net/detail_text.asp?nid=67&lid=1

Conjecture, but I believe that the 'sharp-eyed sailor' was actually the radar set. At 0304 hours on 1 December at 12 nm no amount of carrots will make you see a vessel. http://crusaderproject.wordpress.com/20 ... -k-report/

I wonder if that item were drawn from a contemporary account? Refrence to Radar would have been undesireable.

Also destroyers: Italian cruisers da Barbiano and di Giussano were sunk with the help of radar off Cape Bon in December 1941: http://www.ww2f.com/naval-war-mediterre ... ssano.html

Looks like the Brits were learning to use this new weapon. Obviously not perfect, but growing skill is evident. Still is not clear on how the senpir officers were doing with this.

[Urmel]

The sharp-eyed sailor is from Aurora's captain's AAR.

[Carl Schwamberger]

Like the RAF pilots that sailor ate his carrots.

[verdenpark]

Like the RAF pilots that sailor ate his carrots.

Carrots? An old friend of mine (now gone) was a bombardier/navigator on Wellingtons during the war. He said before going on a mission the B/N's were given a black liquid to drink. He was told that it was some sort of fruit juice to help him see in the dark. Alas, he could not remember the name of the stuff. I got the impression he was not too thrilled with the taste of the stuff.

Does anyone know what it was they were given to drink?