3ton LRDG Chevy - use elsewhere

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Tero
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3ton LRDG Chevy - use elsewhere

#1

Post by Tero » 27 May 2011, 20:24

I bought the Tamiya 1/35 scale LRDG Chevy and I was wondering if it was used in NW Europe in 1944-45 by British troops.

So far my Google-fu has been deficiengt in finding other than Western Desert or Wehrmacht sources.

Any and all directions to possible sources on late-war British use are greatly appreciated.

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phylo_roadking
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Re: 3ton LRDG Chevy - use elsewhere

#2

Post by phylo_roadking » 27 May 2011, 20:42

Depends which of the Chevies you mean!
The LRDG vehicles were mainly two wheel drive, chosen because they were lighter and used less fuel than four wheel drive. They were stripped of all non-essentials, including doors, windscreens and roofs. They were fitted with a bigger radiator, a condenser system, built up leaf springs for the harsh terrain, wide, low pressure desert tyres, sand mats and channels, plus map containers and a sun compass devised by Bagnold. Wireless trucks had special compartments built into the bodywork to house wireless equipment. Initially the LRDG patrols were equipped with one CMP Ford 15 cwt F15 truck for the commander, while the rest of the patrol used up to 10 Chevrolet 30 cwt WB trucks. From March 1941 the Chevrolets were replaced by the CMP Ford 30 cwt F30, which, because they were four wheel drive and heavier than the Chevrolets, used twice as much fuel, which in turn reduced the range of a patrol. These were replaced from March 1942 with 200 Canadian Chevrolet 1533 X2 30 cwts which had been specially ordered for the LRDG. From July 1942 Willys Jeeps began to be issued for the patrol commander and patrol sergeant.
But it's worth noting the later history of the LRDG...
In May 1943 the LRDG was sent to Lebanon to retrain in mountain warfare. However, following the Italian armistice in 1943, they were sent to Leros, one of the Dodecanese islands, to serve as normal infantry. They later took part in the Battle of Leros, where the commanding officer John Richard Easonsmith was killed and replaced by David Lloyd Owen. After the battle the last New Zealanders, two officers and approximately 46 men, were withdrawn from the LRDG and returned to their division.

In December 1943, the LRDG re-organised into two squadrons of eight patrols. Each patrol contained one officer and 10 other ranks. Major Moir Stormonth Darling was given command of the British Squadron and Major Kenneth Henry Lazarus the Rhodesian Squadron. Patrols were then parachuted north of Rome to obtain information about German troop movements, and also carried out raids on the Dalmatian Islands and Corfu.

In August 1944, British Squadron patrols were parachuted into Yugoslavia. One patrol destroyed two 40 feet (12 m) spans of a large railway bridge, which caused widespread disruption to the movement of German troops and supplies. The commanding officer Lieutenant-Colonel Owen and a team of 36 men were parachuted into Albania in September 1944. Their mission was to follow the German retreat and assist Albanian resistance groups in attacking them. In October 1944, two British Squadron patrols were parachuted into the Florina area of Greece. Here they mined a road used by the retreating Germans, destroying three vehicles and blocking the road. Firing on the stranded convoy from an adjacent hillside, they directed RAF aircraft in to destroy the rest of the convoy.

After the end of the war in Europe, the leaders of the LRDG made a request to the War Office for the unit to be transferred to the Far East to conduct operations against the Japanese Empire. The request was declined and the LRDG was disbanded in August 1945.
By 1943 their precious trucks were redundant; the nearest that the various "adhoc" formations came to them were the Jeeps (armoured and heavily upgunned for Western Europe) of the SAS, those of the SOE/OSS "Jedburgh" teams, and those of Popski's Private Army...
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Tero
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Re: 3ton LRDG Chevy - use elsewhere

#3

Post by Tero » 28 May 2011, 08:19

phylo_roadking wrote:Depends which of the Chevies you mean!
The LRDG vehicles were mainly two wheel drive, chosen because they were lighter and used less fuel than four wheel drive. They were stripped of all non-essentials, including doors, windscreens and roofs. They were fitted with a bigger radiator, a condenser system, built up leaf springs for the harsh terrain, wide, low pressure desert tyres, sand mats and channels, plus map containers and a sun compass devised by Bagnold. Wireless trucks had special compartments built into the bodywork to house wireless equipment. Initially the LRDG patrols were equipped with one CMP Ford 15 cwt F15 truck for the commander, while the rest of the patrol used up to 10 Chevrolet 30 cwt WB trucks. From March 1941 the Chevrolets were replaced by the CMP Ford 30 cwt F30, which, because they were four wheel drive and heavier than the Chevrolets, used twice as much fuel, which in turn reduced the range of a patrol. These were replaced from March 1942 with 200 Canadian Chevrolet 1533 X2 30 cwts which had been specially ordered for the LRDG. From July 1942 Willys Jeeps began to be issued for the patrol commander and patrol sergeant.
But it's worth noting the later history of the LRDG...
In May 1943 the LRDG was sent to Lebanon to retrain in mountain warfare. However, following the Italian armistice in 1943, they were sent to Leros, one of the Dodecanese islands, to serve as normal infantry. They later took part in the Battle of Leros, where the commanding officer John Richard Easonsmith was killed and replaced by David Lloyd Owen. After the battle the last New Zealanders, two officers and approximately 46 men, were withdrawn from the LRDG and returned to their division.

In December 1943, the LRDG re-organised into two squadrons of eight patrols. Each patrol contained one officer and 10 other ranks. Major Moir Stormonth Darling was given command of the British Squadron and Major Kenneth Henry Lazarus the Rhodesian Squadron. Patrols were then parachuted north of Rome to obtain information about German troop movements, and also carried out raids on the Dalmatian Islands and Corfu.

In August 1944, British Squadron patrols were parachuted into Yugoslavia. One patrol destroyed two 40 feet (12 m) spans of a large railway bridge, which caused widespread disruption to the movement of German troops and supplies. The commanding officer Lieutenant-Colonel Owen and a team of 36 men were parachuted into Albania in September 1944. Their mission was to follow the German retreat and assist Albanian resistance groups in attacking them. In October 1944, two British Squadron patrols were parachuted into the Florina area of Greece. Here they mined a road used by the retreating Germans, destroying three vehicles and blocking the road. Firing on the stranded convoy from an adjacent hillside, they directed RAF aircraft in to destroy the rest of the convoy.

After the end of the war in Europe, the leaders of the LRDG made a request to the War Office for the unit to be transferred to the Far East to conduct operations against the Japanese Empire. The request was declined and the LRDG was disbanded in August 1945.
By 1943 their precious trucks were redundant; the nearest that the various "adhoc" formations came to them were the Jeeps (armoured and heavily upgunned for Western Europe) of the SAS, those of the SOE/OSS "Jedburgh" teams, and those of Popski's Private Army...
Thank you for the information.

This is the model:

http://www.militarymodelling.com/news/a ... asp?a=5990

But I was unclear in posing the guestion. I meant to ask if this type of Chevy was used in NW Europe by other )ie regular) Commonwealth formations. All data on the type and its use dry out in the Western Desert.

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Re: 3ton LRDG Chevy - use elsewhere

#4

Post by Saxon Cross » 30 May 2011, 00:34

Check this out:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/t ... WW2+trucks

They have Chevys used by the Indian Army in Malasia. Not sure about dates.

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Re: 3ton LRDG Chevy - use elsewhere

#5

Post by phylo_roadking » 30 May 2011, 03:49

Tero, I've been having a look around....and from what little I can find, by the time the 3 ton/30 cwt Chevy hit Europe it was in GS form...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/old_motors/3827136331/
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Re: 3ton LRDG Chevy - use elsewhere

#6

Post by verdenpark » 30 May 2011, 05:26

The Australian Army used both Chev and Ford trucks of all sizes throughout the war, and post war.
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Re: 3ton LRDG Chevy - use elsewhere

#7

Post by Mr Oracle » 30 May 2011, 09:47

I have scans of official Oshawa shots of a LRDG 1533x2 truck when new. PM me for copies.

We know that some of the WBs ended up on Crete, having been shipped from Alexandria: see Wheels & Tracks magazine. I assume that they have been superceded by then by the Ford F30. The WBs were assembled by General Motors Ltd in Rue Ptolomees, Alexandria, and the Fords by the dealer in Alexandria that was taken over by the British.

David

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phylo_roadking
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Re: 3ton LRDG Chevy - use elsewhere

#8

Post by phylo_roadking » 30 May 2011, 21:59

We know that some of the WBs ended up on Crete, having been shipped from Alexandria: see Wheels & Tracks magazine.
IIRC they were assembled there for the small Egyptian Army, who were using WBs at the time the LRDG borrowed them.
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Re: 3ton LRDG Chevy - use elsewhere

#9

Post by Slingshot » 09 Mar 2012, 11:57

The Chevys in question were 1533X2s, 200 of which which were ordered specifically for the LRDG: the cab unit had modified, wider fenders to provide room for the wide, 10.50 x 16 low pressure desert tyres. The rear tray was the Godfredson 4B1 steel ammunition body modified internally with a transverse, wooden equipment locker across the front. Wooden "greedy boards", which increased the height and cargo capacity - up to two tons of equipment - were secured to six upright steel tubes which doubled as weapons mounts. They used a two speed high/low ratio rear axle, which helped mobility in awkward conditions.
There doesn't seem to be any information as to what happened to them once the LRDG changed roles. Presumably they were stripped of LRDG equipment and used as hacks by whatever units could lay hands on them.
Attachments
hist4.jpg
T10 of T Patrol: details of the sand mat on the front fender, condenser and, on the rear step 3 x 2 gallon "flimsies" which contained water, and were part of the escape kits used on each truck. The greedy board post is being used to mount the Lewis. The forward gunner is using a captured Breda LMG; just below the ammunition box is an RAF P series compass, which was fitted to some vehicles, in addition to the Bagnold sun compass, fitted to all vehicles. Image via http://www.lrdg.de/main.htm
ta1.JPG
My model of "Te Aroha III" the W/T truck of T1 Patrol LRDG. The W/T trucks were the only ones in a Patrol unit to carry this equipment. The main transmitter unit was the No 11 W/T, housed in a compartment on the front R/H side; behind it in a separate compartment was a civilian Phillips 635 radio which was used to pick up BBC time pips, or, sometimes, music.
"Non Vi Sed Arte (Not By Strength, By Guile)" Motto of the Long Range Desert Group.

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phylo_roadking
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Re: 3ton LRDG Chevy - use elsewhere

#10

Post by phylo_roadking » 10 Mar 2012, 02:58

There doesn't seem to be any information as to what happened to them once the LRDG changed roles. Presumably they were stripped of LRDG equipment and used as hacks by whatever units could lay hands on them.
There's also a very good chance they were simply shagged :( the Desert is NOT kind to vehicles; not only is sand Nature's carborundum powder, but rock-strewn Desert hardpack and gravel field is not friendly to running gear. Classic Military Vehicle published an article some years ago regarding the huge refurbishment depot and "production line" that the Americans had to establish in North Africa to refurbish trucks used in the theatre in preparation for Sicily and Italy. And they hadn't seen the sort of deep desert work the LRDG's trucks had.
Twenty years ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs....
Lord, please keep Kevin Bacon alive...

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