Carrier platoons in Motor Inf Battalions

[David W]

What configuration of carriers were present in the carrier platoons of the motorised infantry battalions of 1941/42?

I'm trying to differentiate between the ones that were armed solely with Brens & the heavier Boyes/2" mortar combination.

Can anyone help?

[Alanmccoubrey]

David, there were three Carriers in a Section, each one was armed with a Bren, one had in addition the 2" mortar and another had the Boyes ATR. The one with the Boyes is easy as the ATR will either be in the sponson or mounted on a pintle behind the Driver. The 2" is harder to tell as it would be strapped down somewhere inside the Carrier although I have seen a model with the 2" mortar perched on the side wall of the sponson but don't know how authentic that was.

[David W]

Thanks Alan.

[verdenpark]

What was the TO&E for the British Motor Battalion, and how did it alter throughout the war?

[Kingfish]

What was the TO&E for the British Motor Battalion, and how did it alter throughout the war?

http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/Bri ... talion.htm

The site map link at the bottom of the page will allow you to access the motor battalion pages for other Commonwealth countries.

[Alanmccoubrey]

What was the TO&E for the British Motor Battalion, and how did it alter throughout the war?

Just to point out that David wasn't asking about the "Motor Battalion" but the "Motorised Infantry Battalion".

[gjkennedy]

David,

Just to clarify whether you do indeed mean Motor Bns (as found with Armd Bdes), or Lorried Inf Bns, as found in Inf Bdes of Armd Divs?

The organisation for a Carrier Section (as mentioned above) was three vehicles, each with a Bren gun. Issue of anti-tank rifles and 2-inch mortars differed depending on whether UK or ME War Establishments were used.

Gary

[David W]

Just to clarify whether you do indeed mean Motor Bns (as found with Armd Bdes), or Lorried Inf Bns, as found in Inf Bdes of Armd Divs?

Both. Because in my ignorance I thought they were the same!
M.E Establishment.

[Alanmccoubrey]

David, as the Motor Battalion didn't have a Carrier Platoon I answered you as though you wanted to know about the Lorried Battalions which were just normal Infanrty Battalions with lorries to carry them all.

[David W]

Alan.

Quite the right response under the circumstances.

It prompts me to ask what other differences were there between the Motor Battalions & the Lorried Battalions?

[gjkennedy]

Right, different organisations used by the Motor Bns proper and the usual Inf Bns.

In the Motor Bns, the Scout Pl (as the Carrier equipped Pl was known) had two carriers at Pl HQ and three Secs, each of three carriers. All eleven carriers mounted a Bren gun and were also authorised a .55-in Boys anti-tank rifle on both the 1940 Home and 1942 ME WEs. There was one Scout Pl per Motor Coy in the Motor Bn.

For the Inf Bn the single Carrier Pl had a HQ with a single carrier and four Secs, each of three carriers. All thirteen carriers mounted a Bren gun. On the 1941 WE, in each Sec one carrier also carried an atk rifle and another a 2-inch mortar. The 1942 ME WE deleted the 2-inch mortars and allowed for an atk rifle on each Pl carrier.

The Lorried Inf Bns of 44th Div used a modified version of the Inf Bn, and their Carrier Pl was as for them.

Hope that helps some,

Gary

[David W]

Gary.

It does help, but as I have been labouring under a misconception regarding the Motor / Lorried Battalions, I fear that I may need more information regarding differences that go far beyond just Carriers. But let me read and inwardly digest your post above before getting in any deeper.

Thanks one & all.


(It would seem that I have been devoting far too much of my time researching the Axis, ( mainly the Italians) to the detrement of the Commonwealth).

[gjkennedy]

Sticking with ME, Motor Bns were initially found only with Armd Bdes, though there was one Motor Bde (which I seem to recall went through quite a number of designations). They had begun as four identical Motor Coys, each with three Motor Pls and a Scout (carrier) Pl. In 1942 they began to change to a mixed format, with each Motor Coy having one MMG, one Atk (4x 2-pr), one Scout and one Motor Pl. Later in 1942 some units switched to three Coys, each of one MMG, one Scout and two Motor Pls, and formed a fourth Atk Coy of four Pls (each 4 x 6-pr).

Lorried Inf Bns were originally standard Inf Bns lifted by attached RASC Pls, and used the standard WE. At least one (131 Bde), and I think two, Bdes of 44th (Home Counties) Div converted to a revised WE in time for second Alamein, when they were parcelled out to Armd formations. It simply deleted the fourth Rifle Coy and added a separate Atk Coy of four Pls (four guns each), rather than having an eight-gun Atk Pl in HQ Coy. I don't know whether 131 Bde carried the same organisation over to Italy in Sep 1943, which is something I've wondered about previously.

Gary