Lee Enfeild No 4 Mk1 Markings

[gruff27]

Evening All,
After taking a look at my No4 I thought id do some research with regards to its markings, cant seem to find a maker with the code BO? Any help would be gratefully received!

[Steve Hoog]

Gruff, I don't know but will check mine when I get home tonight and report in if it is on mine.

[Saxon Cross]

What is the letter to the right of the 'X' (proof mark) above the M.1944?

It looks like perhaps a 'N' or 'M', and there's a '3' below the 'X'?


EDIT: Sorry, I meant the letter to the LEFT of the 'X'

Saxon

[Saxon Cross]

Anyway, according to this site:

http://www.rifleman.org.uk/Dating%20your%20rifle.htm

That type of proof mark wasn't used until 1950 and a letter 'm' or 'n' to the left of the proof mark would indicate 1960 or 1961.

Apparently that proof mark was not used between 1941 and 1950.

If that's correct, then is it possible the '1944' was added recently?


Saxon

[Steve Hoog]

Mine is a 1943. It is stamped nothing at all like yours. I have a serial number and FTR on the piece you have a picture of; my date is on the main part of the gun right above where your stuff is.

IMO being so different means nothing; I would still investigate if you really want to know what it all means.

[verdenpark]

I have a couple of No.4 Mk.I's, and they do not have anything like the makings shown. I will have to check through Skennerton tonight. Mine only have the serial number (single letter, five numbers) on the butt socket. The other details such as maker, model, and FTR are on the left side of the receiver, either very lightly stamped, or engraved with an electric pencil. Inspection marks on the receiver ring.

I have never seen the M.1944 markings before. The 'M' looks all wrong for an R.S.A.F.. Too stylised. Too European. The rifle wasn't exported after the war was it?

[gruff27]

Interesting feedback, here are all other markings that I can find. There is another marking forward of the breech, but its so small It wont come out well on a photograph, I wouldnt even hazard a guess at what the marking Is as it`s so small and unclear.

Thanks again to everyone for showing an interest and trying to help.

[Steve Hoog]

I'll shoot some pictures of mine this weekend if you want.

[Saxon Cross]

Your serial No. BO 12151 (the five digit no. starting with a 1) indicates it was manufactured by ROF Maltby in Yorkshire, England.
I read that BO would indicate early 1944. 1943 went up to 'BL'.

Here's a picture of a maltby 1943 with a similar 'M' as yours, before the 1943:

http://parallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsfo ... opic/38127


What about the oiler?
Does it have any markings?


Saxon

[Steve Hoog]

Nicely done Saxon!

[verdenpark]

Had a look at Skennerton, and did not find much. He does mention the stylised 'M' is rare compared to the other factory markings encountered. The markings in the other photos are not mentioned, except the '2' on the bolt head, which is its size (there being several sizes available to get the head space right). If the * on the receiver ring was on a No.1, it would mean the action had 'pitting or rust'. No idea what it means on a No.4. Though, looking at the photos, it could mean the same.

[The_Enigma]

In the future, with a bit of luck, i should be a position to purchase an active Lee Enfield No 4. To ensure its the real deal and war period production, what should one look for? Information on the scope as well would be appreicated.

[verdenpark]

A sniper? You must be rich. Apart from the markings as stated above, you should take note of the woodwork. If it has a lateral screw through the back of the forend, it is either a post war production Mk.2, or an earlier mark that has been rebuilt. The latter will have an engraving on the flat side of the receiver which will read something like (taking one of my rifles as an example), F(FTR)49. This means Royal Ordance Factory Fazakerly, Factory Through Repair, 1949. Along with this will be the model designation, and below this, the serial number. Note that not all FTR rifle were converted.

On the Butt Socket there will be small, almost impossible to see marks. These are M.O.D. broad arrow, dates, crosses (proof mark), plus signs (which indicate condition of the rifle), and the original manufacturer (usually a code like M47C ( this is BSA Shirely mark)).

On the receiver ring are small marks. These are hard to see, but are a crown, a letter inside a star, and the word ENGLAND should be quite visible on the right side. Most of the inspection marks will be under the woodwork.

At the pointy end, there will be very small stampings on the right hand side of the barrel, between the bayonet lugs and the muzzle. These are the calibre, date the barrel was either made or proofed, below which is stated the proof pressure in tons.

My No.4s do not have any makings on the woodwork, but the trigger guard and magazine do.

Do not know much about the scopes used on the No.4(T), but they are somewhat complex when compared to the Pat.1918 ones used on the No.1 Mk.III(T), and 3 Mk.I(T) rifles. I will have a look at my books again for you on this subject.

P.S.
Apologies for any poorly spelt place names.

[The_Enigma]

Amazing stuff! Thank you very much!

A sniper? You must be rich.

I had wondered why, other than seeing obvious fakes or modified weapons, i had yet to see, at least at a first glance, the genuie product. Maybe i will stick to just getting hold of a bog standard rifle lol But if you have the info, it would be very much appreicated!