Bofors AA guns in A/Tk role

[John T]

Hi

Bofors first export order of 40mm AP rounds went to Yugoslavia prewar, iirc 1937.

During the war Bofors developed both SAP for air targets and evolved solid AP for ground work.

But I have no info on Brittish inventory.

Cheers
/John

[Juha Tompuri]

In Finland we had both AP and AP-T ammunition for the guns
Here some armour penetration figures for the AP-T rounds:
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/AA_GUNS2.htm

Regards, Juha

[Urmel]

What's AP-T?

[Juha Tompuri]

Armor-Piercing-Tracer

Regards, Juha

[John Hilly]

Here's an authentic shot clip of Bofors in ground-support role:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... jNg#t=115s

There's a longer clip somewhere, but I couln't find it.

With best
Juha-Pekka

[Urmel]

Thanks Juha

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi

Bofors first export order of 40mm AP rounds went to Yugoslavia prewar, iirc 1937.

During the war Bofors developed both SAP for air targets and evolved solid AP for ground work.

But I have no info on Brittish inventory.

Cheers
/John

Ian Hogg in his book British and American Artillery of WW2 states only Shell, HE, Mk4T and Shot, AP, Mk6T were used with the Bofors gun. I was always led to believe that the guns with the divisional AA regiments and those mobile regiments close to the front line had a issue of AP shot incase of a tank attack. Static units in the UK would not need them as their role was only AA.

Clive

[Saxon Cross]

There seems to be two threads asking very similar questions about the Bofors.

This is what I posted in the other thread:


This site mentions the AP and SAP ammunition for the 40mm Bofors:

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/Bofors.htm

---

This site says the SAP round was introduced in 1941, and a full AP round in early 1942:

http://www.wwiiequipment.com/index.php? ... &Itemid=58

They also say approx. 1,000,000 of these rounds were produced by the UK during the war.

---

"Artillery of the World" (first edition), Christopher Foss, Ian Allan, 1974
Claims the 40mm M1 (US L56 version, the UK version was L/60) could pentrate 50mm at 30deg at 900yds.

---

"British & American Artillery of World War 2", Ian V. Hogg, A&AP, 1978.
Claims the US M18A1 AP ammo could penetrate homogenous armour at 0deg: 52mm at 500yds, 42mm at 1000yds


Hogg's data seems more realistic than Foss.

Saxon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Gooner1]

This site says the SAP round was introduced in 1941, and a full AP round in early 1942:

What were they using earlier? As Dowding reported on the Battle of Britain:

"Preparations were made by all A.A. defences
to assume a secondary ground defence role;
Bofors were provided with A/T ammunition,
and sited to cover approaches to aerodromes,
V.Ps., &c."

[David W]

Good question Gooner.
Good info Sax

[Saxon Cross]

This site says the SAP round was introduced in 1941, and a full AP round in early 1942:

What were they using earlier? As Dowding reported on the Battle of Britain:

"Preparations were made by all A.A. defences
to assume a secondary ground defence role;
Bofors were provided with A/T ammunition,
and sited to cover approaches to aerodromes,
V.Ps., &c."

The Battle of Britain ended less than 9 weeks before 1941. It could be that some AA defense were issued ATk rounds as a priority, earlier than than 'general issue', because of Sealion concerns? Or perhaps the first source, or Dowding, were off by a couple of months?


---

I noticed that the Finnish AP penetration data referenced earlier in this thread, is between Foss and Hoggs claims:
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/AA_GUNS2.htm


Foss:
US L56 900yds 30deg: 50mm
At 0deg this would be 58mm

Hogg:
US L56 1000yds 0deg 42mm

Finland:
L60 800m (875yds) 20deg 48mm
At 0deg this would be 51mm

NB. When the Finnish site says 48mm at 70deg. This must mean 20deg in the typical Western way of calculating armour angle penetration.


Also interesting, is that the Finnish site says they only had HE ammo at the start of the Winter war (Nov 1939) but purchased AP ammo during the war (war ended March 1940) saying AP became widely available.


Saxon

[John Hilly]

Mind you, having the 4-round open clip, it was easy to load for example HE-T, HE, AP-T, HE-T in one clip or any other variation. Simple, just load depending on the current situation/ammo available.

With best
Juha-Pekka

[Tom from Cornwall]

Hi all,

Confirmation that British Bofors guns were issued with AP rounds in late 1941, at least, and that both Hy. A.A. and L.A.A. units were expected to take part in the ground battle if tanks came within effective range is found in the following extract from "Standing Operational Orders for Hy. and L.A.A. defences of L.G 75 and 76" issued on 9 December 1941 by 88th Hy. A.A. Regt:

Hostile Tanks.
24 rounds A.P. ammunition will be kept at all L.A.A. gun sites in a separate box distinctively marked.

When within effective range, both Hy. And L.A.A guns will engage enemy tanks in preference to E/A. The effective range for 3.7” A.A. guns against tanks is 1,000 yards and of Bofors guns 400 yards.

Source: WO169/1582 - W.D. 88th HAA Regt RA.

Regards

Tom

[David W]

Good work Tom.

I wonder how the penetration figures of the 40mm AP firing Bofors compared to the 40mm 2-Pdr?

[Trackhead M2]

Good work Tom.

I wonder how the penetration figures of the 40mm AP firing Bofors compared to the 40mm 2-Pdr?

Dear DW and TOC,
I bet the Bofors are better as the cartridges are longer with more propellant.
Strike Swiftly,
TH-M2