Matilda's

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Redbaron1908
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Matilda's

#1

Post by Redbaron1908 » 18 Apr 2003, 19:21

Hello I am looking for information on this type of tank. How good were they compared to early and late panzers? also when did the british stop using them?

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Andy H
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#2

Post by Andy H » 20 Apr 2003, 00:42

The Matilda was last used as a front line machine during the 1st El-Alamein battle in July'42. From that point on it was used in secondary roles such as mine clearance and other special purpose vehicles. the Australian Army reserves still had some well after the wars end.

Though there 60mm armour was a match for most German PAK's the poor speed, lack of manouverability and poor punch from it's gun were reason enough for it's withdrawl from British frontline service.

Andy


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Redbaron1908
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#3

Post by Redbaron1908 » 20 Apr 2003, 15:15

Thank you Andy for the info I had thought that the Matilada had a good gun, well I guess not. What kind of gun did it have.

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Maltida

#4

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 20 Apr 2003, 17:31

There were two Matildas. One was thinly armoured with a mg.

The Matilda II you talking about had a Two-pounder gun(40mm). It fired solid shot only, no HE rounds, so it was useless except it an anti-tank mode.

This is one of the reasons the German 88 did so well against early British
tanks. Bacause having no He capability they would have to get to mg range to attack the crews of German AT weapons, sometimes that would not work and they would literally run over At guns if they survived to get that close.

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#5

Post by redcoat » 20 Apr 2003, 23:48

Matilda I , was a slow heavily armoured infantry tank fitted with a .50 MG. these only saw service in France 1940.
Matilda II,this was a far better heavily armoured tank armed with a 2pdr,and a co-axle mg.
No Axis tank could KO the Matilda in the 1940-1 period, only the 88 A/T gun could do this.
In the N.African campaign of 1940-1 the Italians had no answer to this tank, and it played a major part in their defeats.
When the Germans arrived on the battlefield, good German tactical use of the 88 A/T ended its reign.

ps the 2pdr did fire a HE round, however its HE content was very poor, and it was in short supply during the N.African campaign.

pps the last Matilda to see front-line service was the Matilda (Frog) flamethrower tank used by the Australians against the Japanese in the Far East. This was still in service at the wars end.

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#6

Post by Redbaron1908 » 21 Apr 2003, 02:53

Thank you ChristopherPerrien, and redcoat for the info. no wonder the Germans knocked out many of these during the North Africa battles. I have heard that this tank was also slow what was it's speed?

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Matilda II

#7

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 21 Apr 2003, 04:12

One of my books states it as having a speed of 25kph or 15mph.

That 2pd HE must have been in REAL short supply and bad because I have never heard of it. Some books I got say there was none and most of my old wargames treat the gun as having no HE round (Squad Leader comes to mind), Suprised me.

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Paul Timms
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Matilda

#8

Post by Paul Timms » 21 Apr 2003, 08:07

Sources i've read make the Matilda I nearly as heavily armoured as the II(which i've seen quoted at 80mm on the front). The force that gave 7th Panzer such a hard time at Arras had as many I's as II's. Their speed was a crippling 8-10 mph across country . But their role was as an infantry support tank. Bearing in mind the only infantry anti tank weapon against them was the anti-tank rifle the lack of a decent HE round was irrelevant if the infantry kept up. The 88 was however a different story.

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Matilda armour

#9

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 21 Apr 2003, 08:19

Your cross country speed is right but I believe the Matilda I was much less armoured than the Matilda II. Actually the two did not have much in common except being Infantry tanks with and the name. Tootally different designs, the names can fool people not as familar as some of us.

As far as the Arrras battle, the Matildas faced one of the fiercest anti-tank weapons ever - Rommel.

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#10

Post by Redbaron1908 » 21 Apr 2003, 14:16

Thank you Christopher, and Paul. I did not think this tank would be that slow, it must have also consumed a lot of fuel.

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Andy H
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#11

Post by Andy H » 21 Apr 2003, 19:20

According to Chamberlain & Ellis the 1st Tank Brigade in France 1940 was equipped with the Mk1, and whilst it's frontal armour of 60mm proved all but invunerable it's side armour of 10mm was easily penetrated by most German AT-TK weapons.

They list a XCountry speed of 5.6mph with a max speed of 8mph and a radius on roads of some 80 miles only

Andy

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#12

Post by redcoat » 21 Apr 2003, 21:08

The figures I have for the armour of the Matilda MK I are as follows;
Front 60mm
Side 60mm
Rear 50mm
it should also be noted that some of the earlier MkI's were only armed with a 7.7mm MG not a .50 MG
:)
http://www.onwar.com/tanks/uk/finfmk1.htm

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Paul Timms
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Matilda's

#13

Post by Paul Timms » 22 Apr 2003, 19:27

In keeping with my penchant for the unusual in my wargames armies i have a 3 tank Matilda I platoon. We rate it as slow as infantry x country or road. It has given stirling service and only struggles up against 88's.

Paul

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Andy H
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#14

Post by Andy H » 22 Apr 2003, 20:49

Just a bit of Trivia, the name Matilda was given by General Elles due to the vehicles diminutive size and duck like shape and gait

Redcoat-Are you saying the Turret sides were 60mm or the hull sides?

Andy

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#15

Post by redcoat » 22 Apr 2003, 22:13

Andy H wrote:Just a bit of Trivia, the name Matilda was given by General Elles due to the vehicles diminutive size and duck like shape and gait

Redcoat-Are you saying the Turret sides were 60mm or the hull sides?

Andy
Both :)

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