Why didn't the Uk have a proper APC in WW2?

[sitalkes]

Hi Phylo,

Interesting proposition.

It deserves its own thread, "How motorized was the BEF in 1940?"

Cheers,

Sid

The BEF had 80,000 vehicles and it wasn't fully motorised?????

[Gary Kennedy]

Still quite a few wheeled APCs doing the rounds now, though I'm about fifteen (or may be twenty) years out of date on 'moderns'. Seem to recall they always stressed their being not as much hassle as a tank in terms of maintenance, and as technology has improved so too has the cross country performance of course. And in low intensity situations suppose it doesn't seem quite as aggressive as a tracked vehicle, though the TV will probably still call it a tank if it's got anything remotely turret like on top...

[Gary Kennedy]

Hi Phylo,

Interesting proposition.

It deserves its own thread, "How motorized was the BEF in 1940?"

Cheers,

Sid

The BEF had 80,000 vehicles and it wasn't fully motorised?????

Fully motorised in the sense that it was equipped with entirely mechanical transport (MT) at a time when numerous armies were heavily reliant on animal transport (horse and cart). However not motorised to the extent of having enough MT to pick up everyone and everything that required moving all in one go, hence the lifts referred to over the page. That was still the case in 1944 in NWE, so while a Br Inf Div had in the region of 1000 m/c, 2600 cars, trucks and lorries, almost 600 carriers and 60 odd recce/scout cars, it still couldn't lift all its 18,000 plus personnel using them. That's what the RASC Coys higher up the organisational chain could do, but again not for every Inf Div at once.

Gary

[phylo_roadking]

And in low intensity situations suppose it doesn't seem quite as aggressive as a tracked vehicle, though the TV will probably still call it a tank if it's got anything remotely turret like on top...

Oh, they seemed aggressive enough when I was growing up

Still quite a few wheeled APCs doing the rounds now,

...because they were passed on to the TA for "specialist" uses - hospital vehicles etc. There's a huge park of them I pass every day.

and as technology has improved so too has the cross country performance of course.

The tech of the actual four wheel drive, of course...but over recent decades they became more "offroad" than true "cross country"...in that the four wheelers like the Humber Pig and Saxon always had less gap-crossing ability than six- or eight-wheelers, of course

[Inselaffe]

Current British wheeled APC/truck http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/23248.aspx

Mastiff is a heavily armoured, 6 x six-wheel-drive patrol vehicle which carries eight troops, plus two crew. It is currently on its third variation.

Cheers

[verdenpark]

It was just a niggling thought as to whether there was a one-off thing where the US found some halftrack transportation for the 'leg' infantry, but I'm probably imagining it. As you say, halftracks were unit transport, so not easily prised away. The only APC with top cover I can think of was the Canadian C15TA, but that was wheeled rather than tracked, though of course so were a few of the post-war APCs before the 'box on tracks' appeared.

Gary

Didn't the Soviets have a fully enclosed APC based on the T26? Vaguely remember seeing photos of them somewhwere.

[Gary Kennedy]

Well recalled that man!

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 9&t=183352

Not a vehicle I'd ever heard of, and seemingly around six years before war proper broke out -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-26_varia ... d_carriers

Wonder why there was no meaningful follow-up in its development?

Gary

[sitalkes]

Don't forget the first APC and the first Infantry Fighting Vehicle (and possibly the first amphibious tank) was the Mark IX tank, so the need for an APC was one of those lessons the British forgot from WW1. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... _14515.jpg

It seems that it might not have been terribly successful as, although increased ventilation was supplied, the men inside might still have needed about an hour to recover from the fumes inside, as the engine was not separated from the crew.