Long barreled Shermans

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MarkF617
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Long barreled Shermans

#1

Post by MarkF617 » 16 Jun 2014, 22:33

Hello all,

This may seem a bit odd to start with but please bear with it and it will make sense.

For some light entertainment recently I was watching Kelly's Heroes where Oddball, the nutty tank commander, was showing off that his Sherman had a piece of pipe attached to his gun to make it look bigger. My first thought was that he will be targeted first thinking his tank a firefly but then I had another thought which forms my question. My question is this: As British Fireflies were targeted first due to the long barrels were lengths of pipes, or some official extension, ever attached to the other Shermans in the troop so they all looked the same and the Fireflies therefore couldn't be specifically targeted?

Thanks in advance

Mark.
You know you're British when you drive your German car to an Irish pub for a pint of Belgian beer before having an Indian meal. When you get home you sit on your Sweedish sofa and watch American programs on your Japanese TV.

Alanmccoubrey
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Re: Long barreled Shermans

#2

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 17 Jun 2014, 16:14

Mark, rather than trying make all the other tanks look like Fireflies they painted the barrel of te Firefly to try and make it look like the others. I do wonder what would have happened to a short barrelled 75mm shots when the weight of the extension was added to them , not to mention what would happen if the added pipe was knocked out of alignment and the round hit it when fired.
Alan


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Simon H
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Re: Long barreled Shermans

#3

Post by Simon H » 17 Jun 2014, 16:22

Of course the Firefly was easily identifiable due to the muzzle brake on the barrel, which the 75's didn't have. I cannot recall having seen any ETO pictures of Sherman tanks having extra lengths of tube added to their barrels to mimmick a 17lb, probably for the reasons already cited.

Firefly veterans have told me plenty of times where their tank was "called to the front" to take out enemy armour - not a job they must have relished, but they did have an advantage over the 75's.

Kind Regards,
Simon
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Clive Mortimore
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Re: Long barreled Shermans

#4

Post by Clive Mortimore » 17 Jun 2014, 21:49

Alanmccoubrey wrote:Mark, rather than trying make all the other tanks look like Fireflies they painted the barrel of te Firefly to try and make it look like the others. I do wonder what would have happened to a short barrelled 75mm shots when the weight of the extension was added to them , not to mention what would happen if the added pipe was knocked out of alignment and the round hit it when fired.
As Alan says the barrel of the 17 pdr was painted to look like a 75mm. This seems to be a coomon thing that modellers do to their model Firelies. I have just done a Google image search for Sherman Firefly and these are the only two WW2 photos I could find with this paint modification and both are the less common Sherman 1C Hybrid.
Firefly 1.png
Firefly 1.png (377.48 KiB) Viewed 1768 times
From http://scaleplasticandrail.com/kaboom/i ... l-by-tasca
Firefly 2.png
This one has rockets as well.
From http://www.militarymodelling.com/forums ... p?th=80498

Yours

Clive
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MarkF617
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Re: Long barreled Shermans

#5

Post by MarkF617 » 17 Jun 2014, 22:22

Thanks for that. It never occurred to me to do it the other way and make it look shorter but thinking about it it makes more sense. If you can make them all look like 75s then they look less threatening, maybe even tempting German armour to move a little closer as they may feel safe.

Mark.
You know you're British when you drive your German car to an Irish pub for a pint of Belgian beer before having an Indian meal. When you get home you sit on your Sweedish sofa and watch American programs on your Japanese TV.

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Saxon Cross
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Re: Long barreled Shermans

#6

Post by Saxon Cross » 18 Jun 2014, 15:38

MarkF617 wrote:Thanks for that. It never occurred to me to do it the other way and make it look shorter but thinking about it it makes more sense. If you can make them all look like 75s then they look less threatening, maybe even tempting German armour to move a little closer as they may feel safe.

Mark.

I think it would also be much harder to make barrels longer. First because you have to mod 3 out of 4 barrels, instead of just painting 1 out of 4, and secondly because the first time a short barrel shoots, the fake pipe extension would disintegrate. As we know, Hollywood and real life are far apart.

Command tanks however, did often have fake 'pipe' guns that could not shoot at all.

Saxon

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Urmel
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Re: Long barreled Shermans

#7

Post by Urmel » 07 Jul 2014, 15:30

I've just gone through the IWM picture database, and at a quick glance at the thumbnails there doesn't seem to be a single Firefly with the barrel painted to make it appear shorter.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

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Michael Kenny
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Re: Long barreled Shermans

#8

Post by Michael Kenny » 07 Jul 2014, 15:45

The Poles used an even better disguise.
It's all done with mirrors....................

Image

Clive Mortimore
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Re: Long barreled Shermans

#9

Post by Clive Mortimore » 08 Jul 2014, 00:40

Michael Kenny wrote:The Poles used an even better disguise.
It's all done with mirrors....................

Image
With my ex-gun fitter head on I think I can say that barrel may not be repairable, not even wrapping it with strong gaffer tape. :D
Clive

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Urmel
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Re: Long barreled Shermans

#10

Post by Urmel » 08 Jul 2014, 00:44

Well if it had been one of them wooden guns, a bit of spit and sawdust would have seen to it.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Sheldrake
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Re: Long barreled Shermans

#11

Post by Sheldrake » 03 Sep 2014, 15:07

Urmel wrote:I've just gone through the IWM picture database, and at a quick glance at the thumbnails there doesn't seem to be a single Firefly with the barrel painted to make it appear shorter.
The paint scheme might look better on a model or in a black and white photos than under real conditions and engagement ranges where shadow and sunlight matter more.

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