Camp 1 Grizedale Hall

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seaburn
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Camp 1 Grizedale Hall

#1

Post by seaburn » 26 Jul 2014, 02:11

Does anyone have information on this Prisoner of War Camp?- I can't find much information on its existence but I have seen it referenced by someone who claims to have been held there post Oct 44. How long was it open and is there any history of it and the people kept there available anywhere?

Thanks
C.B.

The title of this thread was changed pursuant to a suggestion made in #7
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Last edited by Andy H on 18 Sep 2014, 12:28, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Misleading original title

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Re: Camp 1 - Windermere

#2

Post by seaburn » 26 Jul 2014, 18:51

I've looked into this a little bit more today and I suspect that the Camp number quoted in the book was incorrect - it may actually have been Camp 1. This camp was located at Grizedale Hall, Hawkshead, Ambleside, Lancashire which was a POW camp for Officers close to Lake Windermere. If anyone has any further details about this camp that are not on-line, I'd be grateful to receive them.


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Re: Camp 7 Windermere

#3

Post by Foam » 05 Aug 2014, 08:55

Camp 1 Grizedale Hall

There is, I think, a reasonable amount on line about this camp, as it was a specially developed POW officers camp open for the duration of the war and beyond. All camps closed in Britain by autumn 1948. See English Heritage site for an overview of camp numbers and locations. Very few camps have had books specifically written about them and I am not sure about Grizedale but as you have probably found out there were UBoat commanders, Luftwaffe pilots and even senior German generals held here so there are plenty of references. I am beginning to find that the only in depth avenue of material to investigate are camp war diaries held at the UK National Archives. See Henry Faulk's book Group Captives for the sociology of camps and the reeducation effort made by the British post 1945 (but a hasty check of the footnotes does not seem to show Grizedale) good background are the works of Pamela Howe and Mark Tyrrell. Tyrrell writes about several camps in Cheshire, including Crewe Hall another officer camp.

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Re: Camp 7 Windermere

#4

Post by seaburn » 05 Aug 2014, 15:33

Thanks 'Foam', I am curious about the sociology of the re-education process especially those who were labelled 'black' so your information is much appreciated. My person of Interest ended up in Camp 165 and there is a book about conditions there which has been useful. There is also a file on that camp in Kew which I'm tempted to order. I have my POWs number, I would be interested to know if there is a central record for these, from looking in the archives it appears that there was nothing kept there, probably due to the vast number coming and going. I was hoping to attract attention of a Grizedale hall buff, so I live in hope :P I wonder if any of the POWs ever wrote a book about their time in the camps...that would be be a very interesting insight !

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Re: Camp 7 Windermere

#5

Post by Foam » 05 Aug 2014, 21:01

Camp 1 and wider society

The hall was demolished but he coach house and barns etc are now a visitor centre. You could try getting in touch with them, they may have material. Faulk was the Lt Col in charge of the re-education process and author of one of the definitive 21(?) volume official German histories of German POWs in WW2. Another excellent book, while I think of it, is Thresholds of Peace; German Prisoners and the People of Britain 1944-1948 Matthew Barry Sullivan. Grizedale is mentioned in the references 4 times. Faulk and Sullivan together will give you good background for understanding the complex changes in attitudes, expectations and political, religious and social thinking amongst the prisoners across the age groups. Faulk shows the changes in Black Grey White assessments over time. US and Canadian imprisoned German POW returnees thought they were going home to Germany and were duped often by US guards. They were very angry at times at ending up in the UK and caused ructions in UK camps and affected general camp morale.

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Re: Camp 7 Windermere

#6

Post by seaburn » 06 Aug 2014, 13:21

Tks 'Foam' lots of good leads to go on !

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Re: Camp 7 Windermere

#7

Post by Foam » 06 Aug 2014, 18:00

NOTE TO MODERATORS

I strongly suggest that this thread should be retitled Camp 1 Grizedale Hall as the current title is misleading. It is also worthwhile considering that it should be transferred to the German POW section.

Good luck seaburn. By the way there were 22 volumes in the official German POW history edited by Dr Erich Maschke.

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Re: Camp 1 Windermere

#8

Post by seaburn » 12 Aug 2014, 10:06

Thanks again 'Foam', not sure about ploughing through 22 volumes at this stage, 8O but never say never! It's an interesting world that has never really been covered to a great extent in the visual media and I'm left wondering how accurate any that have made it to the screen actually were. The part that interests me most are the stories of the POWs who were labelled as 'black'. I had presumed it was their attitude alone that got them that label, but it seems initially at least that it was the fate of men from the Waffen SS, U-Boat service and Paratroops to be collectively classified as such.

My POW was definitely at Camp 1 and I have now confirmed that he was moved to Camp 18 'Featherstone' in June 1945 with 100 other 'Black' categories from the above services. I will follow that trail now, but if anyone has any information on that camp, I'd be grateful. I don't know how long he stayed there yet. There is some good information on this site http://www.northumberland-tales.com/POW-camp-18.html which contains interesting snippets.

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Re: Camp 7 Windermere

#9

Post by Foam » 12 Aug 2014, 15:05

CAMP 1 Grizedale Hall

The 22 volumes are in German! Sullivan's book has a chapter on the Basil Liddell Hart / Von Runstedt discussions at Grizedale Hall. These were incorporated into Liddell Hart's book The Other Side of the Hill. This is a WW2 history from LH's 1945/6 interviews with 20 or so German generals. 105 generals and field marshal's were brought to Britain during/after the war.

Your U Boat man would have been an officer if he was at Grizedale. Many thousands made thre transition from black to white, including Bert Trautmann (see the Marbury Hall threads on this site). Sullivan is good on the role of Camp 300 Wilton Park in providing a "university" for POW re-education. Faulk discusses the sociology of the process more. Another black to probably white convert is Armin Jost, whose picture is in the Marbury Hall history website. Iif you look carefully at his photograph, you will see a tribute in English to the effect of Wilton Park.

Have fun with your research. I certainly am.

FoAM

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