3-ton TCV - actual troop carrying capacity

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Gary Kennedy
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3-ton TCV - actual troop carrying capacity

#1

Post by Gary Kennedy » 20 Aug 2014, 15:58

Hoping a few petrol heads, sorry, vehicle enthusiasts, might know the answer to this one.

The British 3-ton Troop Carrying Vehicle (TCV) is generally cited as being able to carry 29 or 30 men, or sometimes simply a 'platoon', which was eventually 37 men. I've always been a bit sceptical that you could fit that many personnel into a single vehicle for anything more than short hops. While there are plenty of pictures available of the exterior of lorries, that aren't quite so many for the interior, but I have been able to find a couple of interesting ones here -

http://www.ipmsdeutschland.de/FirstLook ... d_QLT.html

The second and third ones (after the artwork) are obviously restored vehicles, and it's the latter of these that gives a glimpse into the carrying bit of a TCV. I don't think you could crowbar 30 blokes in there, though the text says you can. The black and white photo underneath shows a centreline with 8 seats, facing alternately, and two rows either side of the compartment, so to my mind at least, a max of 24. There's also the 'load forward of line' instruction, which I understand was linked to the lengthened chassis of the TCV, so could that have curtailed the capacity a bit more?

There may be a RASC manual or the like that specifies things in detail, but all I have are references in a couple of early and mid-war War Establishments as to vehicle allocations. The original Troop Carrying Coy WE of Sep39 states that a Section (25 vehs) would be allocated to each Inf Bn, and further a Sub-Sec (5 vehs) would be required for each Rifle Coy and HQ Coy. At this date a Rifle Coy was 100 all ranks, and certain personnel would be carried in Coy vehs, so I don't think they'd be calculating more than 18 men per TCV, which is a long way short of 30. The 1942 Lorried Inf Bn (Middle East) reckons on 6 3-tonners per Rifle Coy, and 4 more for HQ Coy. The marching personnel of a Rifle Coy is noted as 93 or 94, so again six TCVs would average 16 men each.

Does anyone have any info on how many men a TCV as found in a 1944-45 RASC Coy was expected to actually carry?

Cheers,

Gary

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Saxon Cross
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Re: 3-ton TCV - actual troop carrying capacity

#2

Post by Saxon Cross » 21 Aug 2014, 04:42

I seem to recall that it was 24 men in the Bedford QLD (not including driver) and 33 men in the Bedford QLT (not including driver). When I get time, I will see if I can find my sources.

Footprint (LxW in inches)
QLD: 236x89
QLT: 277x89

Quantity Produced:
QLD: 52,250
QLT: 3,373

Available:
QLD: Feb 1940
QLT: Mar 1941


Speed: 61 KMH


Found this:

Bedford QLT 3ton 4 X 4 Troop Carrying Vehicle.
Platoons for troop carrying in armoured divisions used the Bedford QLT. This was a Bedford QL which carried a 3foot 5inch longer body. This was made possible by
- adding a chassis extension to the rear
- replacing the fuel tank normally placed behind the cab with two smaller tanks, one either side of the chassis
- moving the spare wheel to a carrier under the chassis rear end.

There were double doors at the rear with steps at either side. There were also inward opening doors at the front on either side. There were simple bench seats down either side of the body. These were padded and could be folded flush with the sides. There were also padded backrests. Down the centre of the body was a single bench with backrests fitted to face alternately to the right and left. These seats could be removed and stowed under the body. There were folding seats fitted to the two front doors. This gave a capacity of 29 men in the body plus one in the cab. The body was fitted with a canvas tilt on a tubular frame and the sides could be rolled up. There was a bracket on the rear offside door on which a bicycle could be carried.

The QLT could be used for carrying loads with the seats folded or removed as described above. The rear part of the body should not have been used for loads and factory fresh vehicles had a line and a stenciled notice ‘Load Forward of Line’.Some 2,500 QLT were built. In early contracts some vehicles were fitted with non standard wooden bodies.
---

And found this:

Image


Saxon


Gary Kennedy
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Re: 3-ton TCV - actual troop carrying capacity

#3

Post by Gary Kennedy » 21 Aug 2014, 15:01

Cheers for that.

So the QLD came first and had a smaller capacity than the later QLT then. That might explain why the WE refs err towards the smaller capacity as they come from 1939 and 1942. The article does state 29 men in the QLT though, which I still think would be a bit on the snug side when they're carrying all their kit and weapons and ammn.

Thanks,

Gary

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Sheldrake
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Re: 3-ton TCV - actual troop carrying capacity

#4

Post by Sheldrake » 03 Sep 2014, 15:01

It is possible to carry over 40 people in a bedford foru tonner. There were 43 in an over-loaded vehicle which overturned in Germany in the 1980s. This has no bearing on the maximum official loadaing.

There are also photos of a bren carrier in Italy carrying about eight people

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Saxon Cross
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Re: 3-ton TCV - actual troop carrying capacity

#5

Post by Saxon Cross » 04 Sep 2014, 04:20

Sheldrake wrote:It is possible to carry over 40 people in a bedford foru tonner. There were 43 in an over-loaded vehicle which overturned in Germany in the 1980s. This has no bearing on the maximum official loadaing.

There are also photos of a bren carrier in Italy carrying about eight people

True. And I've seen about 16 policemen on a single motorcycle.

Saxon

Alanmccoubrey
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Re: 3-ton TCV - actual troop carrying capacity

#6

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 04 Sep 2014, 21:55

The QLT carried a Platoon of infantry regardless of whether said Platoon had more or fewer than 29 men, if some poor man/men had to sit on the floor in the back that was just too bad. And let's not forget the fact that there were two seats in the cab beside the driver.
The QLD wasn't fitted with seats so any estimate of how many troops it could carry is just that, an estimate.
Alan

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Leo Niehorster
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Re: 3-ton TCV - actual troop carrying capacity

#7

Post by Leo Niehorster » 05 Sep 2014, 08:32

And, speaking from experience, ANY ride — no matter how crowded — is better than walking. :milwink:
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