British Armoured Division TO&E Question

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James Patrick
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British Armoured Division TO&E Question

#1

Post by James Patrick » 29 Dec 2004, 07:01

Does anyone know when British Armoured Divisions switched from their 2 Armd Bde congifuration to the 1 Armd, 1 Inf Bde they used throughout the rest of the war? I'm specifically looking for the div's in the British Isles (Gds, 9th, 11th, 42d, 4th Cdn, 5th Cdn). Thanks for any help?

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Andy H
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#2

Post by Andy H » 29 Dec 2004, 14:51

The change occurred with the issuing of order 20/RAC/120 SDI dated May 2oth 1942.

Basically one of the two Armoured brigades was replaced by a Infantry brigade. The Support Group was abolished and Divisional RA placed under HQ Divisional RA. Divisional RA increased by another RHA or Field Regt. HQ Armoured Division was given 2 AA Tanks (Order WE II/100/2 wef 26/08/42). HQ Armoured Regiment given 8 AA Tanks, also the fifth troop per squadron taken away in May 1940, was restored, therby increasing the establishment of a Regiment by 9 Cruiser tanks (Order WE II/151/2 wef 26/08/42).

In October 1942 Armoured Division Support Companies, as Divisional troops, and Infantry Brigade Support Companies were authorised (War Office letter 20/Gen/6059 SDI wef 1 & 30 Oct 1942). Only the Guards Armoured Division adopted this experimental organisation in 1942; and the Armoured Divisional Support Company was repalced in 1943 by Infantry Brigade Support Companies.

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#3

Post by Polynikes » 29 Dec 2004, 16:12

What about APC's?

I've seen pictures of US built M2 & M3 half tracks and also the turretless Canadian Ram tanks (Kangaroo).

Did the British armoured divs operate like German Pz divs by having a single armoured infantry battalion?

What about US built White scout cars?

James Patrick
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#4

Post by James Patrick » 29 Dec 2004, 18:24

Thanks Andy. Do you have an oob for the 9th and 42d Armd Divs after the conversion to 1 Armd, 1 Inf Bde occured?

Hey Polynikes. IIRC, the armoured brigades one motor bn inf used M3 halftracks. I think kangaroos were only used by the 79th Armd Div's 1CAPR, but don't quote me on that.

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#5

Post by Andy H » 29 Dec 2004, 19:00

Hi James

OoB nearest to the change date.

9th Armoured Division

28th Armoured Bde
(5th DG, 15/19H, 1 FF Yeo, 8KRRC)
7th Infantry Brigade
(?)

RAC-Inns of Court
RE-610 & 611 Field Sqns and 146 Field Pk Sqn
RA-6RHA & 141 Field Regt and 74At-Tk Regt plus 54 LAA Regt
plus Divisional support elements.

NB: 27th Armoured Brigade ceased to form a intergral part of the Division on June 12th, but remained attached till August 10th 1942.

42nd Armoured Division

30th Armoured Brigade
(22dGNS, W Dgns, 1Lothians and 12KRRC )
71st Infantry Brigade
(1 E Lancs Regt,1HLI, 13HLI (Replaced by ) 1 Oxf & Bucks)

RAC-112RAC
RE-616 & 617 Field Sqns & 149 Field Pk Sqn
RA-86 & 147 Field Regts, 53 At-Tk Regt and 93LAA Regt
plus Divisional support elements.

NB: 10th & 11th Armoured Brigades left the Division on May 13th'42 when 30th Armoured was incorporated.

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#6

Post by James Patrick » 29 Dec 2004, 19:04

Thank you very much, sir. That's just what I was looking for. Have yourself a happy new year

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#7

Post by Andy H » 29 Dec 2004, 19:48

also the turretless Canadian Ram tanks (Kangaroo).
On several occassions in the British 7th Armoured Divison (in NW Europe) at least one Infantry Battalion operated in RAM (Kangaroo's) assigned from 79th Armoured Division.


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#8

Post by Andy H » 30 Dec 2004, 01:05

Just a footnote concerning the 9th Armoured.

Though actually dibanded in 1944, it still appeared on OoB lists as part of the Allied deception during the DDay landing. The division was listed as belonging to FUSAG (First US Army Group) based in Kent under Patton, as the proposed force for the invasion across the Pas De Calais.

Andy H

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