Allied submarines escorting Convoy's?

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Andy H
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Allied submarines escorting Convoy's?

#1

Post by Andy H » 25 Jan 2005, 19:47

I had never given this aspect of Submarine warfare any consideration until I came across the following:-
14 Mar - Dec 1941: O 21 is attached to the 8th Flotilla in Gibraltar and is under British operational control.

3 Apr - 12 Apr 1941: O 21 escorts convoy HG 58 (Gibraltar - U.K.) until 45°N.

13 Apr 21 Apr 1941: O 21 escorts convoy OG 58 (U.K. - Gibraltar), she engages the convoy at 45°N.

6 May - 13 May 1941: O 21 escorts convoy HG 61 (Gibraltar - U.K.) until 45°N.

13 May - 18 May 1941: O 21 escorts convoy OG 61 (U.K. - Gibraltar), she engages the convoy at 45°N.

6 May - 18 May 1941: O 21 patrols the Bay of Biscay and the Atlantic Ocean. No attacks are made.

4 June - 11 June 1941: O 23 escorts convoy HG 64 (Gibraltar - U.K.), she engages the convoy at 45°N.

12 June - 18 June 1941: O 23 escorts convoy OG 64 (U.K. - Gibraltar), she engages the convoy at 45°N.
http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/boats/bo ... 6:02%20hrs

Was this practice widespread amongst Allied submarines in WW2 or just perculiar to the Gib convoys and Dutch Submarines?

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#2

Post by varjag » 26 Jan 2005, 04:07

The only one I have heard of is anecdotal - when HMS Submarine joins up with Murmansk convoy and her commander signals the Commodore;

In case of U-boat attack my plan is to stay on the surface

Commodore's reply is instant;

Mine too...


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Michael Emrys
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#3

Post by Michael Emrys » 28 Jan 2005, 08:25

I never heard of this before either, Andy. I know that early in the Pacific war, both sides often had subs loosely attached to a surface fleet and later in the war, sub activity was often coordinated with fleet activity.

The only instance I can think of that even remotely resembles a sub "escorting" a convoy is fictional, when a Japanese hunter-killer group contains a sub in the novel Run Silent, Run Deep.

But actually, it might not have been a bad idea, since it was said that a sub's deadliest enemy was another sub. Sub vs. sub duels in the mid-Atlantic might have been interesting, as might have stationing a few in the Bay of Biscay to catch arriving and departing U-boats. Presumably the Allies had their reasons for not doing that, the danger of blue-on-blue incidents possibly being one.

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#4

Post by Andy H » 28 Jan 2005, 18:37

Grease_Spot wrote:
as might have stationing a few in the Bay of Biscay to catch arriving and departing U-boats. Presumably the Allies had their reasons for not doing that, the danger of blue-on-blue incidents possibly being one.
I agree that the possibility of Blue on Blue would have been a major concern, especially as Allied Air power grew in the Bay.

The RN Submarines that entered the Bay did so, only on transit to and from Gibraltar.

It seems that in August 1943, the RN Submarines were disposed as such:
Home Waters: 16 (with 6 making ready for foreign service)
Mediterranean: 32 (with 6 making ready for the Far East)
Colombo: 1 (under repair)

The main body of those 16 Submarines in Home Waters, were stationed for action in and around the Norwegian coast, and to keep a watching eye on the Tirpitz etc

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#5

Post by Harri » 28 Jan 2005, 20:22

Submarines were rather effective against other submarines because they were equipped with good listening devices and they were not so easy to deteck as bigger "surface ships". The limited speed of submarines was not a problem because most convoys were not any faster.

For example Finnish Navy used patrolling submarines to escort convoys and chase Soviet subs close to convoy routes. Occasionally it was their primary task. Finns succeeded a few times to sunk Soviet boats.Boats were later also equipped with depth-charge racks.

http://www.abc.se/~m10354/uwa/s7.htm

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#6

Post by Michael Emrys » 29 Jan 2005, 09:13

Andy H wrote:Mediterranean: 32 (with 6 making ready for the Far East)
Wow. I didn't realize they had that many in the Med, especially at that late date. And were they mostly or all the smaller, short-ranged types? I guess whatever larger types they had were the ones headed for the Far East? The smaller ones should have been useful in home waters.

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