Besal machine-gun

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Petrus
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Besal machine-gun

#1

Post by Petrus » 26 Apr 2005, 14:07

Currently I am seeking any information about and of course pictures of the Besal machine-gun that was built in Britain before or in early period of the war. As I have heard it was to be a backup for the Bren, much simplier and cheaper than that.

I will be grateful for any information. Thanks in advance.

Piotr

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#2

Post by The Argus » 26 Apr 2005, 15:28

Besal Mk2
lenght: 46.63"
weight: 21.5lb
caliber: .303"
rifling: 4 groove rh twist
feed: 30rnd box
cooling: air
cyclic rof: 600rmp
MV: 2440fps
sights: 300/500 yards

Designed by H. Falulkener of BSA, to make the maximum use of stampings, spot welding and simple turning in place of the Bren's more labourious milling and broaching. The action and layout remined simmilar to the Bren, with the majority of the changes being in detail design and manufacturing techniques. Basicly post Dunkirk, the Bren was being made in only one place in the UK, RASF Enfield, as such it was very vulnerable to being bombed, so the BESAl was designed as an alternative should that happen. Enfield was never bombed and the Besal sat on the shelf.

The difference between the MK1 and Mk 2 was in the method of cocking, the Mk.1 used a conventional cocking handle (in this case a knurled knob), while the Mk2 used a sliding pistolgrip like several other Czech weapons of the period, BSA and CZ/Bruno haveing a fairly close relationship pre war.

In short the Besal was to the Bren as the MG42 is to the MG38, with the exception that it never went into production.

Technically I think the problem was Falulkener went too far in dumbing down the Bren, making it just too much of an 'emergency' weapon to be anything but second best beside the real thing. This wasn't his fault, his job was to make it as cheap and quick as he could, but the result was just too much of a compromise, too crude.

IF a little more margin had been left for the details, that is if Falulkener had been told to make a replacement for the Bren, I believe it would have been a respectable weapon.

shane


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Petrus
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Re: Besal machine-gun

#3

Post by Petrus » 03 Jul 2008, 00:06

Take a look at this picture:

Image

Is the machine-gun in the middle not the Besal LMG? Definitely it is not a version of the Bren. But what actually is it?

Piotr

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Re: Besal machine-gun

#4

Post by gjkennedy » 05 Jul 2008, 15:28

I think the middle weapon, with the curved mag, is a Vickers-Berthier light machine gun. These were used by the Indian Army at the outset of the war, but it seems they were gradually replaced by the Bren gun. Similar characteristics to the Bren, but found to be nowhere near as reliable as the ZB in trials held pre-war (otherwise it might have been the standard British LMG!).

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gagarin
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Re: Besal machine-gun

#5

Post by gagarin » 17 Jul 2008, 11:31

Yep top machine gun is a Bren, and judging by the straight magazine one of those post WWII guns recalibred for the nato 7.62 ammo
middle one is indeed a Vickers Berthier
bottom looks like a ZB26, the Bren's czech ancestor

these guns are much more sophisticated than tha Besal
I've seen a picture of a Besal once, and it looked extremely crude compared to these

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The Edge
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Re: Besal machine-gun

#6

Post by The Edge » 24 Jul 2008, 09:33

Hope this helps: (from the book “Modern Small Arms” by Major Frederick Myatt, Salamander Books, 1978)

http://img104.imagevenue.com/img.php?im ... _140lo.jpg

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Petrus
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Re: Besal machine-gun

#7

Post by Petrus » 12 Sep 2008, 12:38

It has helped indeed. Thanks a lot!

Piotr

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Simon K
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Re: Besal machine-gun

#8

Post by Simon K » 12 Sep 2008, 13:38

Is this the same as the BESA, which was a tank mounted weapon?

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Re: Besal machine-gun

#9

Post by The Edge » 12 Sep 2008, 14:25

Simon K wrote:Is this the same as the BESA, which was a tank mounted weapon?
No - BESA was the belt-fed MMG (UK license-made Czech ZB-53) in 7.92x57mm caliber.

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Re: Besal machine-gun

#10

Post by Simon K » 12 Sep 2008, 14:29

Thanks.

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IvanSR
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Re: Besal machine-gun

#11

Post by IvanSR » 14 Sep 2008, 06:26

Interesting, never heard of this gun before. Thanks for the info, everyone.

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audrew
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Re: Besal machine-gun

#12

Post by audrew » 13 Jul 2009, 12:40


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Re: Besal machine-gun

#13

Post by audrew » 29 Jun 2010, 16:01

Attachments
Besal001.jpg
Besal001.jpg (65.39 KiB) Viewed 5570 times

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Re: Besal machine-gun

#14

Post by audrew » 03 May 2012, 08:47

The Infantry and Small Arms School Corps
Attachments
sacs salisbury.jpg
sacs salisbury.jpg (47.88 KiB) Viewed 3147 times
besal barrel.jpg
besal barrel.jpg (11.14 KiB) Viewed 3147 times
besal.jpg
besal.jpg (75.69 KiB) Viewed 3147 times

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