Commonwealth Vehicles & Hvy Equipment in N.A '40 - '42

[David W]

I want to compile a list of Vehicles & Heavy Equipment, as used by the Commonwealth forces in North Africa during 1940 - 1942.

I have divided the list into 5 categories; Armour, Artillery, Recce, Anti-tank & Anti-aircraft.

I am not including captured equipment, soft skinned vehicles (unless used as tractors) or going into Tunisia or 1943.

The list is quite comprehensive, but by no means complete. The idea is that forum members add their own input & eventually the list will be complete.

Here goes...


ARMOUR

Lt tank Mk II A/B
Lt tank Mk III?
Lt tank Mk VIA
Lt tank Mk VIB
Lt tank Mk VIC
Vickers medium Mk II
A9
A9 cs
A10
A10 cs
A13MkI
A13MkII
A13 MkIIcs
A15 Mk I
A15 Mk II
A15 Mk III
Matilda Mk II
Matilda Flail / Scorpion?AMRA
Sherman M4A2
Valentine Mk II, III & IV.
Honey
Grant
Sherman M4A1
Churchill Mk III
Covenanter
Lee


ARTILLERY

18Pdr
18/25Pdr
25Pdr + Quad
Priest
Bishop
75mm L/36 (f)
3.7” Howitzer
4.5” Howitzer
4.5” Gun
60Pdr
5.5” Gun
155mm L/20 M1 ?
26cwt 6” Howitzer
BB3 Conus Lorry c/w 75mm L/36 (f)



RECCE

Rolls Royce MKI 1924 pattern
Marmon Herrington Mk II
Marmon Herrington Mk III
Marmon Herrington Mk IIIa
Universal carrier
Universal carrier c/w 25mm Hotchkiss
Indian wheeled carrier
Humber/Guy Scout car Mk I ?
Daimler Dingo scout car Mk Ib
Morris CS9/AC9
Morris Lt Recce car Mk I & II
AEC Mk I ?
Daimler Armored car ?
Dorchester ACV
S.A.S Jeep
Fordson RAF Armoured car




ANTI – TANK

37mm Bofors
25mm Hotchkiss (f)
2 Pdr
6 Pdr
47mm L/53 (f)
Deacon




ANTI – AIRCRAFT

13mm Quad
Bofors 40mm
3.7”
Lt Tank AA MK I ?

[David W]

What! No takers?

[C.GILLONO]

What! No takers?

If I may...
I read of 18Pdr used as extemporized AT guns by CW troops.
The Sherman models can be given as Mk II et III (M4A1 and M4A2).
The Bishop was there for sure (Alamein), you can drop the question mark.
just my 2 (€) c

[JonS]

The 18-pr was used as an A-Tk gun, during CRUSADER at least.

You can take the ? off the Bishop and the 5.5-in.

The Matilda Flail is the Matilda Scorpion (or vice versa, depending on your POV).

The inf bns had an AA-Pn, equipped with the Bren (or twin Bren?) on a tripod, but it's probably somewhat outside the scope of "Hvy Eqpt" by any reasonable defn

Edit: Gillo beat me to it

[David W]

I read of 18Pdr used as extemporized AT guns by CW troops.

This is true & I toyed with the idea of putting it under the anti tank heading. The important thing is that it is mentioned, not that it is under the right heading. They are just to make the list easier to read.

The Sherman models can be given as Mk II et III (M4A1 and M4A2).
The Bishop was there for sure (Alamein), you can drop the question mark.

The 18-pr was used as an A-Yk gun, during CRUSADER at least.

You can take the ? off the Bishop and the 5.5-in.

The Matilda Flail is the Matilda Scorpian (or vice versa, depending on your POV).

Thanks both. I am off to edit the original, to reflect these changes.

P.S Do you know which units received Bishops & 5.5" Guns?

Ta!

[JonS]

'ere ye go: http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/017 ... ps_30.html for the bulk of it.

Four more 5.5-in with the French down south: http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/017 ... nf_44.html

11 HAC RHA (1st Armd Div) had the Priests

[JonS]

Oh, what about the 4.2-in mtr?

[David W]

Thanks Jon.

[Brian Ross]

Covenantor tanks weren't used operationally in the desert. I understand one or two were sent out for trials but considering that the design had problems with cooling in the temperature UK, how it would have performed in the Middle East is anybody's guess.

Several different marks of Valetine served, as did Shermans. Limited numbers of Medium tank, M3, Lee also served with the UK in North Africa. No Lt.Tk. AA Mk.1 saw service in the Middle East, as far as I am aware.

[David W]

Covenantor tanks weren't used operationally in the desert.

That's what I always thought. Until I saw photographs of them.

Several different marks of Valetine served, as did Shermans

If they are not specified above, please can you name them.

Limited numbers of Medium tank, M3, Lee also served with the UK in North Africa.

So I believe, but not within the parameters set out in my opening post, unless I am very much mistaken.

No Lt.Tk. AA Mk.1 saw service in the Middle East, as far as I am aware.

I have only one source of reference to back up my inclusion of this model in the list, so I am prepared to accept that it is wrong, if you can back up your "case" a little.


Thanks for your interest. Dave.

[Brian Ross]

Covenantor tanks weren't used operationally in the desert.

That's what I always thought. Until I saw photographs of them.

Interesting. Would you care to provide a reference to this photo, as well where and whom used them?

[David W]

The only published photo (ie outside of a private collection) that I can point to; is in Bryan Perrett's book "British tanks in N.Africa 1940 -1942". (P.23) As for where, I can be no more precise than" the Western desert" Landmarks being few & far between.
As for who used them, I doubt that we will ever know, as they were not officially documented as Covenanters on O.o.B, they were listed as A15 MkII's along with the real A15 MkII's. (At least, I've never seen them correctly named) In any case, I'm sure that you are right, and that there were not many of them in N.Africa at all.

[David Lehmann]

Hello David,

Do you list also Free French troops here under the designation "Commonwealth" ?

If not what about these guns :
- 25mm L/72 Mle1934 or Mle1937 AT gun. 220 where indeed given to the BEF in France but how did they land in North Africa ?
- 47mm L/53 Mle1937 AT gun. Except French and German troops I don't think they were used.
- 75mm L/36.3 Mle1897 field gun. Must also be rare among British troops. The US variant is used on hlaftracks etc.

If yes, then you can add many French vehicles in the listing.

Regards,

David

[David W]

Yes david I do include the French in my dubious "Commonwealth" title.

Please submit any further vehicles/Guns.

Perhaps "Allied" would have been a better word to have used.

[David Lehmann]

Well the French were placed under British command, it was just to be sure of what you meant.

TANKS
The Free French used several French tanks until 1943 :
- Hotchkiss H39
- Renault R35
- Renault D1
- Somua S35

ARMORED CARS
- Laffly S15 TOE (just armed with one FM 24/29 LMG)
- Panhard 165/175 TOE
- Citroën-Kégresse P16 Mle1929
- AMR33 ?
- White Mle1918 ?
- Laffly 50AM
- Laffly 80AM
In May 1940 mostly all the White Mle1918 and many Laffly 50AM are not used anymore. They are again in service under Vichy and probably used later also.
In 1940 there are about 10 AMR33 also in North Africa ... I don't know their fate, perhaps some were still in use.

- Chevrolet armored truck (37mm + FM24-29)
The Free French also converted Chevrolet trucks in armored trucks. They were armed with a 37mm SA18 gun behind a shield and various MGs (FM 24/29, MAC31)

There were also Berliet VUDB, which are APCs, but unarmed


ARTILLERY

- 25mm L/72 Mle1934 AT gun (perhaps also the Mle1937)
- 47mm L/53 Mle1937 AT gun
- 75mm L/36.3 Mle1897 field gun (used as AT gun)
- 75mm M Mle1928 mountain gun

Both 75mm guns were used as field guns but also carried on trucks (Laffly S15T, Dodge, GMC etc.)
The 25mm AT gun was also mounted on Laffly S20TL trucks.

Laffly S15T were used to tow guns also.

- 13.2mm Mle1930 Hotchkiss AA gun on twin and quad mounts, on various trucks
- several 25mm Mle1938 or Mle1939 Hotchkiss and 20mm Oerlikon were probably used on trucks too since they were present in North-Africa before the armistice of 1940.
- 40mm Bofors

Best regards,

David

PS : the single French field gun used in Koufra was a 75mm M Mle1928 mountain gun. In Bir Hakeim the French troops used 75mm Mle1897 field guns in AT rile as well as 6 47mm Mle1937 AT guns.