111th Field Regiment R.A (TA)
111th Field Regiment R.A (TA)
Which batteries comprised the 111th Field Regiment in Late 1942/3?
David, I've looked in a few places on line and off, and can't find anything. Sorry. Nigel Evans and Derek Barton RA websites both have the divisions to which 111th was attached, and the 111th also had a fairly heavy involvement with 2(NZ)Div from early 43 (in NA) through early 44 (in Italy) (per '2nd New Zealand Divisional Artillery" available online at NZETC). Some of the other NZ OHs may have more detail about this regt, although I would tend to doubt it. Do you have access to the British OHs?
BTW, what time period are you particularly researching, or is it the whole NA campaign, from mid-1940 through mid-1943? If it's the latter, and given that you seem to be going down to bty level of detail, don't forget the RA's "Mac Troop"
BTW, what time period are you particularly researching, or is it the whole NA campaign, from mid-1940 through mid-1943? If it's the latter, and given that you seem to be going down to bty level of detail, don't forget the RA's "Mac Troop"
Last edited by JonS on 12 Mar 2006, 21:58, edited 1 time in total.
NO!Do you have access to the British OHs?
Generally Mid 1940 - late 1942. Specifically to 111th Field, there involvement in the Western desert campaign.BTW, what time period are you particularly researching, or is it the whole NZ campaign, from mid-1940 through mid-1943? If it's the latter, and given that you seem to be going down to bty level of detail, don't forget the RA's "Mac Troop"
111th Field Regiment (Wessex)
A lot of this is after your target dates, but anyway ...
from "2nd NZ Div Arty" (NZ OH):
Late March 1943: 111th Fd with NZ Corps, doing left hook at Tebaga Gap
Early April 1943: 111th Fd still with NZ Div, but in particular with 8th Armd Bde (speculation: Army Tps RA Fd Regt attached to 8th Armd Bde to provide them with organic spt? Confirmed by later info)
Late April 1943: Still with NZ Div, now at Takrouna
May 1943: still with NZ Div, still in NA
from "Bardia to Enfidaville" (NZ OH):
March 1943: "The 8th Armoured Brigade from 7 Armoured Division came under command on 10 March. It consisted of 3 Royal Tanks, Notts Yeomanry, and Staffordshire Yeomanry, all heavy tank regiments, and 1 Buffs, 111 Field Regiment, RA, and ancillary units."
from 8th Armoured Bde unit history:
March 1943: " The 5th Royal Horse Artillery left the Brigade and their place was taken by 111 Field Regiment Royal Artillery on 14th March. The Brigade joined the 2nd New Zealand Division under Major-General Freyberg, V. C., an association which was to continue to the end of the campaign."
from Nigel Evans' site:
Regiment: 111 Fd Regt
Type: TA
Origin/Change: Of 53 Fd Regt (see note below)
Where - When - With:
UK 1939-40 - 66 Inf Div
UK 1940-1 - 42 (East Lancashire) Inf Div
N Africa 1942-3 - Army Troops att 8 Armd Bde
Alamein 10/42 - 50 (Northumbrian) Inf Div
Sicily 1943 - 5 AGRA
Italy 1943-4 - att 8 Indian Div
Yugoslavia 1944-5 - 2 Special Service Bde
Disposal: Disb 47
from Derek Bartons' site:
Sep 39 UK 66 Inf Div
Jul 40 UK 42 Inf Div
Oct 41 UK Home Forces
Oct 42 Alamein
Nov 42 N Africa 50 Inf Div
Feb 43 N Africa 8 Army
May 43 N Africa Middle East Forces
Jul 43 Sicily 8 Army
Sep 43 Italy 8 Army
from Leo Niehorsters site:
23 October 1942: 111th Fd with 50th Inf Div, under CRA. Equipped with 24 x 25-pr.
Regt commanded by Major Pat Turner in June 1944.
wo0t!!1! Got one: Obit for Lt-Col Daniel, BC of 212 Bty, 111th Fd Regt, on Vis (off Yugoslavia), 1944.
from 4th Armd Bde unit site:
"The 111th Field Regiment, consisting of 211th, 212th (East Lancashire) Batteries, was part of 66th Infantry Division, based at Bolton, Lancashire, when war was declared, in September 1939. By July 1940 it was part of 42nd Infantry Division, still in the UK, where it remained until sometime after October 1941. By October 1942, it had sailed to the Middle East and supported 50th (Northumberland) Division at El Alamein. In November 1942 it came under 8th Army command. although it did support 8th Armoured Brigade at times, during the rest of the North African campaign. It was to remain under 8th Army command for the rest of the war, being part of 6th AGRA (Army Group Royal Artillery), XIII Corps for the invasion of Sicily. It was attached to 4th Armoured Brigade for the early stages of the Italian campaign, before returning to 8th Army command again."
This unit would have had 2 x 12 gun btys (ie, 211 and 212) in the early war. After the re-org in 1941/42 it would have transitioned to 3 x 8 gun btys, two of which would have been 211 and 212. Not sure what the other was.
With a bit of digging, you might be able to use this site to figure out which division it was assigned to throughout 1942. For example, that site has it listed with 50th Div from 15.10.1942 till 21.11.1942, and it was released from 42nd div on 31.10.1941 ... which 'only' leaves 12 months unaccounted for ...
Not relevant to your search, but: The NZ OH talks about a shell that took out a command element of 111th near the end of the NA Campaign ... this is the human impact of that shell.
53rd Fd Regt consisted of 209, 210 (E Lancs) btys under the 2 x 12 org, and 209, 210, 438 btys under the 3 x 8 org. The third bty in 111th Fd might therefore have been 439 Bty. You could 'confirm' this by using Evans' site to look for other 'parent-child' relationships between TA regts, then use Barton's site to try and find some sort of pattern in the numbering of btys. This is the British Army though, so any pattern found may well only apply to one or two instances
Regards
JonS
A lot of this is after your target dates, but anyway ...
from "2nd NZ Div Arty" (NZ OH):
Late March 1943: 111th Fd with NZ Corps, doing left hook at Tebaga Gap
Early April 1943: 111th Fd still with NZ Div, but in particular with 8th Armd Bde (speculation: Army Tps RA Fd Regt attached to 8th Armd Bde to provide them with organic spt? Confirmed by later info)
Late April 1943: Still with NZ Div, now at Takrouna
May 1943: still with NZ Div, still in NA
from "Bardia to Enfidaville" (NZ OH):
March 1943: "The 8th Armoured Brigade from 7 Armoured Division came under command on 10 March. It consisted of 3 Royal Tanks, Notts Yeomanry, and Staffordshire Yeomanry, all heavy tank regiments, and 1 Buffs, 111 Field Regiment, RA, and ancillary units."
from 8th Armoured Bde unit history:
March 1943: " The 5th Royal Horse Artillery left the Brigade and their place was taken by 111 Field Regiment Royal Artillery on 14th March. The Brigade joined the 2nd New Zealand Division under Major-General Freyberg, V. C., an association which was to continue to the end of the campaign."
from Nigel Evans' site:
Regiment: 111 Fd Regt
Type: TA
Origin/Change: Of 53 Fd Regt (see note below)
Where - When - With:
UK 1939-40 - 66 Inf Div
UK 1940-1 - 42 (East Lancashire) Inf Div
N Africa 1942-3 - Army Troops att 8 Armd Bde
Alamein 10/42 - 50 (Northumbrian) Inf Div
Sicily 1943 - 5 AGRA
Italy 1943-4 - att 8 Indian Div
Yugoslavia 1944-5 - 2 Special Service Bde
Disposal: Disb 47
from Derek Bartons' site:
Sep 39 UK 66 Inf Div
Jul 40 UK 42 Inf Div
Oct 41 UK Home Forces
Oct 42 Alamein
Nov 42 N Africa 50 Inf Div
Feb 43 N Africa 8 Army
May 43 N Africa Middle East Forces
Jul 43 Sicily 8 Army
Sep 43 Italy 8 Army
from Leo Niehorsters site:
23 October 1942: 111th Fd with 50th Inf Div, under CRA. Equipped with 24 x 25-pr.
Regt commanded by Major Pat Turner in June 1944.
wo0t!!1! Got one: Obit for Lt-Col Daniel, BC of 212 Bty, 111th Fd Regt, on Vis (off Yugoslavia), 1944.
from 4th Armd Bde unit site:
"The 111th Field Regiment, consisting of 211th, 212th (East Lancashire) Batteries, was part of 66th Infantry Division, based at Bolton, Lancashire, when war was declared, in September 1939. By July 1940 it was part of 42nd Infantry Division, still in the UK, where it remained until sometime after October 1941. By October 1942, it had sailed to the Middle East and supported 50th (Northumberland) Division at El Alamein. In November 1942 it came under 8th Army command. although it did support 8th Armoured Brigade at times, during the rest of the North African campaign. It was to remain under 8th Army command for the rest of the war, being part of 6th AGRA (Army Group Royal Artillery), XIII Corps for the invasion of Sicily. It was attached to 4th Armoured Brigade for the early stages of the Italian campaign, before returning to 8th Army command again."
This unit would have had 2 x 12 gun btys (ie, 211 and 212) in the early war. After the re-org in 1941/42 it would have transitioned to 3 x 8 gun btys, two of which would have been 211 and 212. Not sure what the other was.
With a bit of digging, you might be able to use this site to figure out which division it was assigned to throughout 1942. For example, that site has it listed with 50th Div from 15.10.1942 till 21.11.1942, and it was released from 42nd div on 31.10.1941 ... which 'only' leaves 12 months unaccounted for ...
Not relevant to your search, but: The NZ OH talks about a shell that took out a command element of 111th near the end of the NA Campaign ... this is the human impact of that shell.
53rd Fd Regt consisted of 209, 210 (E Lancs) btys under the 2 x 12 org, and 209, 210, 438 btys under the 3 x 8 org. The third bty in 111th Fd might therefore have been 439 Bty. You could 'confirm' this by using Evans' site to look for other 'parent-child' relationships between TA regts, then use Barton's site to try and find some sort of pattern in the numbering of btys. This is the British Army though, so any pattern found may well only apply to one or two instances
Regards
JonS
Last edited by JonS on 13 Mar 2006, 02:20, edited 12 times in total.