Question about SS men in POW camps, transfered for trial?

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Stephanie625
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Question about SS men in POW camps, transfered for trial?

#1

Post by Stephanie625 » 28 Dec 2013, 21:50

What might happen to an SS man captured at the end of the war, if it was discovered that he'd done a stint with the Totenkopfverbande in a camp? I know that once the extermination camps were discovered, and the war ended, the allies created a database of names of any SS men they found had worked in a camp. But to my understanding, camp guards and other mid-lower level personnel didn't go on trial until at least 1947.

What would happen to an SS man who went into combat at the end of the war, but had a history in the camps? If he was caught and placed in a POW camp, would they, on discovery of his prior work, put such a man into a prison as was done with higher ranking Nazis?

And does anyone know what criteria was used to determine punishment? I'm seeing a wide spectrum of punishments... from Unterscharfuhrers in their 20s being executed in Poland to higher ups getting a few years and then amnesty. Was guilt based on participation, or on survivors' testimony, or what?

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Re: Question about SS men in POW camps, transfered for trial

#2

Post by steve248 » 23 Feb 2014, 21:25

The short answer is: it depends.

The British, French and US Zones of Occupation in Germany from 1945 had the CROWCASS lists (Central Registry of War Criminals and Security Suspects) and these were used in the Internment Camps. Checking prisoners against the various lists.

Many prisoners in their short career description listed that they had served in many concentration camps, including Auschwitz. However if nothing was listed against them nothing happened. The Polish War Crimes Commission investigated many camps in the British Zone (and probably did the same in the French and US camps) looking for SS men who had committed crimes. As long as they could offer a prima facie case for prosecution, the suspects and war criminals could be extradited to Poland.

Many rank and file SS men and women who had served in Auschwitz were tried by the British in 1945 - the Bergen-Belsen Trial, for crimes committed there, and not crimes at Auschwitz. The British also conducted trials of rank and file men who had commited crimes at Neuengamme and Ravensbrück; some of whom had a career at Auschwitz.

However, SS-officers from these camps were more sought after, rather than most rank and file/enlisted men. Certainly some young men of this latter category were tried in Poland after the war, some executed, some given prison sentences. In a Sunday newspaper today, there is report that the Zentrale Stelle in Ludwigsburg have arrested 3 elderly German guys (average age 90; so 25 in 1945) for crimes at Auschwitz.

Ah, I didn't answer the question about whether when identified as someone who served at Auschwitz, for example, was in a sense, segregated in his internment camp. Until extradition was agreed they remained among the camp population as just another prisoner.


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Re: Question about SS men in POW camps, transfered for trial

#3

Post by Stephanie625 » 25 Feb 2014, 21:23

Thank you for your answer, I realize the question was rather specific! What I gather is that in order for a man's name to be put on CROWCASS, some sort of testimony or complaint against him would be necessary, rather than say, perhaps the discovery of his name on a roll call list. I think I might extend this question under that heading, see what I get.

Which seems to me like the men, if such is the case, who wound up on trial would be the ones who had to have living victims, or a survivor who at the very least remembered his face/name and was willing to come forward and make an allegation. You speak about Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen; do you know what/if there were differences with the Treblinka camp (or other Action Reinhardt camps), where most of the victims were dead, and they were known extermination camps?

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Re: Question about SS men in POW camps, transfered for trial

#4

Post by steve248 » 26 Feb 2014, 09:48

The CROWCASS lists were a guide. They were compiled from information supplied by the previously Nazi occupied countries themselves and who were members on the U.N. War Crimes Commission. UNWCC published the CROWCASS lists. The Soviet Union was not a member and therefore there are no Germans or other nationalities mentioned as "wanted" by the Soviet Union.

The information supplied to UNWCC has been the subject of recent debate in legal circles. The U.N. in New York since the end of ALLIED war crimes investigations, say 1950, has kept all their CROWCASS information on individuals in completely secrecy in an archive in New York. In the last couple of months I read copies are now being taken and provided to various archives, among them the USHMM in Washington. There may be something on their website about this.

Personnel of the Aktion Reinhardt program and their three camps (Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka) were mentioned in one of the CROWCASS lists, No. 80 possibly, without my checking. In common with a lot of entries the individuals named only have a possible surname and practically no pertinent dates of birth or places. So if someone called Schmidt or Schneider or Hahn was listed the chances of those men, in internment, readily agreeing to be that person were exceedingly remote. Why admit to such a poor identification?

In 1950 the Berlin state prosecutor convicted Erich Hermann Bauer, alleged former "Gasmeister of Sobibor", not of gassing people but for mistreating and shooting individual Jewish prisoners. He was sentenced to death. I do not know if he was executed. I very much doubt that Bauer was identified by a CROWCASS listing, because the Allied authorities did not hand over to the new German government any CROWCASS lists.

The website for Justiz und NS-Verbrechen can be checked for other trials of Aktion Reinhardt people by the Germans. I have no knowledge of any trials of these people by Poland. Maybe one of the Polish contributors to the Forum can comment on this.

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Re: Question about SS men in POW camps, transfered for trial

#5

Post by David Thompson » 04 Apr 2014, 22:29

There is a long list, without much detail, of the defendants in Polish war crimes trials starting at http://www.uni-marburg.de/icwc/forschun ... &id_trial=

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Re: Question about SS men in POW camps, transfered for trial

#6

Post by George_W » 14 Apr 2014, 22:37

David - this list includes only those who were extradited from US, British, French or Soviet zones to Poland between 1946-1950.
However, many more (also few SS members from KL Auschwitz) were caught in Poland or transferred from Soviet captivity
(for example SS general Hilmar Moser). They are not appear on this list but we have to remember that there was many more trials against war criminals in Poland.

Steve - as far i know, there were no trials connected directly with Aktion Reinhardt members. None of those who survived the war was extradited to Poland. The knowledge about Treblinka, Belzec and Sobibor staff members was rather poor at that time. Polish authorities often hadn't even first names of these individuals.

George

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Re: Question about SS men in POW camps, transfered for trial

#7

Post by Schüle » 12 May 2014, 22:38

My grandfather escaped/deserted from Berlin with my grandmother to get to the Americans. He was in a POW camp for 3-4 months.
He was in the SS and had the rank of Rottenführer (corporal). He also served in KZ-Buchenwald 1937-38, Totenkopf std.3 Thüringen/Weimar. The Americans did know of his history pre- and during the war, when he was a POW. I also got his RUSHa files SS papers from the US and files from Bundesarchives in Berlin.
He also have told me this in person.

Just a example of what happend to some SS men.

Hope it was helpfull,

J

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Re: Question about SS men in POW camps, transfered for trial

#8

Post by Stephanie625 » 29 May 2014, 20:50

Thank you!

What I am gathering is that, so long as there is no specific charge against someone (which might be difficult to obtain against AR personnel, just for lack of witnesses), they might not have to go to trial.

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