Aid to Germany 1945-50

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Maple 01
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Aid to Germany 1945-50

#1

Post by Maple 01 » 04 May 2003, 21:42

OK ladies and gentlemen,

This is a spin-off from a forum topic about how the Soviets treated the SS men they captured. A member of the forum touched on one of the most important parts of the history of post-war Germany, Marshall aid and other relief packages, and to my mind got it spectacularly wrong.

This took a while to put together so please do me the courtesy reading through to the end before describing it as lies and Western propaganda!

POW commented
After the war the Americans did't had the intensions to help Germans. There was no plan to rebuild the economy as well. The sudden charity the Germans received they have to thank to the atomic bomb and the iron courtain. However the Marshall plan made only a difference of a few percent to the entire remaining German economy it was a good idea of course.
I fundamentally disagree with this stance, and suspect POW is confusing the post-war timeline, detonation of the first Soviet Atomic bomb (1949) and Marshall aid, which kicked in first, in 1948 and was open to all European countries -both east and west -, so couldn't have been a response to 'the Iron Curtain'. He also belittles its importance. It’s a huge topic so I'll split my comments over several posts
Thus the major consequence of the war [for Germany] in the immediate post-war period was the hardship and dislocation that resulted from the destruction of the cities, from economic collapse and from the massive population mobility. The destruction itself was unbelievable. Over 50% of housing in the big cities had been destroyed. Production fell to almost zero in April 1945. In 1946, production in the Western Zones still had not exceeded 25% of the pre-war figures. Rations remained little above starvation levels until 1948. For three years after the end of the war , life was one long struggle for the ordinary citizen.

Though they dominated the immediate post-war period, the hardship and disruption of normal life were short-lived. Malnutrition disappeared rapidly after 1948
So what we’ve got here is a Germany on her knees in 1945 – Year Zero, but how was the ‘economic miracle’ made possible and how was mass starvation avoided?
World War two had left two genuinely ‘great powers’, the US and the USSR, on the flanks of Europe. Yet there were two other powers, Britain and France, both on the winning side in the war, both with a tradition of being ‘great powers’ and both keen to maintain that position. Neither Britain nor France had the manpower or the economic resources to challenge these powers.

At the time of the Yalta agreement the US government were unaware of the consequences of its newfound power and the degree to which the implementation of its vaguely formulated plans for a world economic and political order would involve it in a continuous and active political and military involvement overseas. Nor did the US realize that it would have to adopt many of the traditional stratagems of the other great powers that they saw as morally inferior

US foreign policy sort a post-war world much like that envisaged by Woodrow Wilson in 1918: A community of self-governing nations existing on the basis of self-determination. At the same time, its political liberation was to be accompanied by an economic liberation, at once self-serving [for the Americans] and idealistic
So at Yalta it was beginning to dawn on America that someone had to work-out how to rebuild Europe, that’s the whole of Europe, including Germany and the Eastern European countries under Stalin’s control. The two European powers that should have done it were economically wiped-out; it was down to Uncle Sam, partly because it was in the interests of the US that there was a strong European economy (you can’t sell fridge freezers to people with no electricity) and partly because it was the right thing to do.
Planning for the economic recovery of Europe by means of American aid began in both Europe and the US almost immediately after Marshall’s speech. [General George Marshall, US Secretary of State, speech given on 5th June 1947] Britain took the initiative in Europe. In 1948 Congress ratified, and from June 1948 until1952 some $13,150 million in American aid was given to Europe.

Britain received $3,176 million
France received $2,706 million
Italy received $1,474 million
West Germany $1,389 million
[Marshall aid was offered to countries that ended-up behind the ‘Iron Curtain’, and despite the desperate need, Stalin said ‘NO’ – that’s why there was no ‘economic miracle’ in the east]
Most of the money was spent in the US itself providing at first food, animal feed and fertilizers for the immediate problems, and then raw materials and semi-finished products, together with fuel, machinery and vehicles. By the end of the programme agricultural output in Western Europe was 10% above the pre-war levels [bearing in mind all the land Germany lost] and industrial output was 35% above.
So lets remind ourselves what POW said
After the war the Americans did't had the intensions to help Germans. There was no plan to rebuild the economy as well.
West Germany $1,389 million – no, no plans to give aid or rebuild the economy there!

More soon

Regards

-Nick

Sources
Marwick et al, Total war and Historical change: Europe 1914-55, OU Press, 2001
Emsley et al, Total War and Social change 1914-55, OU Press,2001

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Lord Gort
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#2

Post by Lord Gort » 04 May 2003, 22:03

Yes it really was a splendid effort, thang God for the US and General Marshell, but I dont think this should take any glory away from the millions of Europeans who toiled to rebuild their countries after the war.




regards,


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#3

Post by Lord Gort » 04 May 2003, 22:05

Yes it really was a splendid effort, thang God for the US and General Marshell, but I dont think this should take any glory away from the millions of Europeans who toiled to rebuild their countries after the war.




regards,

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Maple 01
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#4

Post by Maple 01 » 04 May 2003, 22:15

The point I'm making is that Marshall aid and food given to Germany during the period 1945-50 kept her going, POW made out that -
After the war the Americans did't had the intensions to help Germans. There was no plan to rebuild the economy as well. The sudden charity the Germans received they have to thank to the atomic bomb and the iron courtain. However the Marshall plan made only a difference of a few percent to the entire remaining German economy it was a good idea of course.
he's wrong, either because he dosn't know, or dosen't want to know....

Regards

-Nick

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#5

Post by Maple 01 » 04 May 2003, 23:00

So, the other question is ‘how did the Germans avoid starvation?’ We’ve seen from what’s gone before that Germany was getting back on her feet by mid 1948 so we’ll concentrate on the period 1945-47

The short answer is that the US, UK, USSR and France fed her.

That bland US food that someone was complaining about elsewhere on the forum, Wheat from Canada, foodstuffs diverted from the UK (bread went on ration in post-war UK because so much was being sent to Germany). Coal, oils and building materials started to trickle in, almost before the fighting had ended.
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#6

Post by POW » 05 May 2003, 15:15

Let's look to my statement in detail:
"After the war the Americans didn't had the intensions to help Germans. There was no plan to rebuild the economy as well."When WW2 ended and the cruel deeds of the Germans were revealed, we can exclude all possibility of doubt that none had the intension to help Germany. Especially the Europeans had understandably an anti-German attitude. For this let's take a look to a document I owe:
Translation of a official leaflet for repatriated German prisoners of war by the 21 Army Group, Form 105.

Total defeat. Germany is defeated, military, political and social.[...]German families are scattered to the four winds. Your cities are in debris. The railway is destroyed. Millions of your fellow countrymen are dead. That all has Germany - and you - thank to the greed of the German government. [...] Some of you supported fanatic the subjugation of foreign countries, some others tolerated it. You are all guilty on that what happened. You all have to pay for it. The misery you'll bear in the future you'll have to accredit to your own.
The situation in Germany after WW2:
Germany was devastated. A few years later all nations asked: "How did the Germans did it? How they got off the ground this fast? Are they devils or wizzes? The German rise began at 20. June 1948 when Ludwig Erhard started the currency reform without accordance of the Allies. However, the basis was done by Albert Speer. He saved the production plants against Allied bombs and Hitler's scorched earth order. Actually in this context we have to thank Lindemann (Lord Cherwell) and Harris for bombing the civilians instead of the production plants. The remaining industry was the foundation for the new Germany. According to the statistic federal office, about 1000 of the 1873 incorporated companies in Germany were able to leave their capital stock unchanged until 1950. That means they were able to change one Reich mark to one Deutsche Mark even though the exchange rate for savings balances was 0,065 Reich mark for 1 Deutsche Mark. 268 companies were able to rise their capital 10:15. Even the dismantling of the German industry by the Allies couldn't avoid this.

There was no plan to rebuild Germany. Far from it! Plans for dismantle the German industry were worked out. According to Fred Smith (assistant of Morgenthau) General Eisenhower said at 7 August 1944: "Personally I don't like the idea to rebuild the German economy..., cause the whole German nation is supporting the system und therefore they are guilty. Personally I like to see that the Germans will get a hard life." I heard very often that Morgenthau-Plan did not came into force. But we know that Germany was and is subdivided into parts. The foreign assets was ousts according to 5e of the Morgenthau-Plan. The restitution came into force according 5a and against international law Germans got no compensation for their loss of private property. The dismantling of the German industry caused more damage in peacetime than Harris was able to cause during the war.

Hunger in Germany caused by decisions like the separation of East Germany. About 25% of Germany was lost. The "American Mercury" in New York compared that with the USA. That would mean as if the USA has to abjure on Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Missouri, North-Dakota, South-Dakota, Nebraska and Kansas. To much loss of agricultural countries to feed the Germans. Hunger was the result. Victor Gollancz said 1947: "The people in Germany are looking skeletal...."

The financial headquarter in Germany was located in the Behrenstraße. Al large banks were there. At 2 May 1945 the victorious forces went down to the strongrooms of the bank district. Like a subsurface city the strongrooms were under the banks and the Russians had no keys to open them. At first they took all cash they found. They had no idea what thousand Marks means and so they paid hundred thousand Marks for a bottle of Schnapps. Thy paid 100 Marks for a haircut. And a raped stenotypist, which lay whining behind the desk for stocks and bonds got a half million. After 10 days the Russians had the keys to open the strongrooms. Looting everywhere. There was no electricity but bonds and shares make a nice fire. The remaining banking industry could be found in Hamburg later. The Allies considered the banking industry as a supporter of the Nazi regime and beside of Krupp and IG-Farben, the Deutsche Bank, Dresdner Bank and Commerzbank were considered as connoting and therefore undesirable concentration of power. The men, who paid Hitler's war, may never play a part in Germany anymore. They were arrested.

Beside the dismantling of the German banks and industry I like to add the "intellectual dismantling". How much scientists, experts and patents were transferred out of Germany? 1946 the US senate had demur against scientist which were member of the NSDAP. A spokesman of the pentagon said: Most scholar have interest in their work only and don't care for politics." That didn't count for people Germany needed. According to the Potsdam agreement (directive #24, 12 January 1946) all former Nazis had to be removed immediately from office.

Millions of German POW's were held in foreign custody for years. They weren't available as labourer for the German economy. They were replaced by women. The women walked behind the plow, cleared the wreckage in the cities and preserved their family against starvation. My deepest respect to the women.

1946 until 1948 220.000 tons of parcels send by CARE reached Germany. 85% sent from the USA. The people had pity with the Germans - unfortunately this sense of charity did not reached the politicians. The Red Cross gave out more than 130 million portions of food until 1948. Winter 1947 about 35 private aid organisations had more than 1200 volunteers in Germany. In the British zone all penicillin was used to avoid venereal diseases in the British army. As result nearly all penicillin was used for bitches only. The British Red Cross saw the cynicism of it and donated penicillin which was distributed in Vloto. Or the "Operation Scattergrain" by the Friends Relief Service. They bought 30 tons of seeds and delivered to the British zone. Statistically that all was a drop in a bucket: 700 aide for 23 million people, school lunch for 200.000 children when 2 million were malnourished. But what counts was the good will of the people which liked to help the Germans.

The sudden charity the Germans received they have to thank to the atomic bomb and the iron curtain.
In 1947 the commissions of William Averell Harriman and Christion Archibald Herter come to the conclusion, that without Germany Europe could not be rebuild either. They saw the insanity of dismantling ammonia plants which could increase the production of grain about 8 million tons. Resulting out of the dismantling of German steel plants, the OEEC-countries had to import at least 5 million tons of steel from the USA. Raw material the USA needed by their self. The proved the insanity of destroying German factories for pipes when the USA had a lack of pipes on their own. Without pipes the production of propane and oil stunted. The conclusions of Herter resulted in the agreement of the Marshall-Plan for Germany. At that time some people still made propaganda for hate against Germany but they had nearly no auditory anymore. Economical interest were stronger. From June 1948 until May 1949 the US tax payer payed daily 700.000 Dollar for the air bridge to Berlin.

Thus the German rising was a result of unintentional aid: Allied bombs which destroyed cities instead of the industry. The refugees of our lost countries as labourer. The dismantling which forced Germany to be more advanced than the others and let labourer and entrepreneurs stick together. The crucial aid wasn't deliberately but unintentional and indirect.

The intentional aid with the Marshal-Plan came into force due to economical reasons worldwide. Beside that Germany was needed as an ally against the Soviet Union. We have to thank our wealth to the atomic bomb, which caused the fast downfall of the alliance between Wollstreet and Moscow. I can go in detail to the atomic bomb and the Marshall-Plan but I've typed enough for today. Maple, if you like to gain more wisdom just give me a call. :roll:

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#7

Post by Maple 01 » 05 May 2003, 17:21

Maple, if you like to gain more wisdom just give me a call.

sure, we'll debate this more,

not at the moment- other stuff on


Regards
-Nick

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#8

Post by alsaco » 07 May 2003, 22:59

I really think that before diiscussing, POW should try to collect some informations.
Presently, he gives back beliefs some people have build up, and do currently repeat, but these beliefs are unfounded or distorted.

The first point would be to adopt a more methodical agenda. See each point separately, an distinguish facts, interpretation, tales and impressions to convert them into arguments.
Distinguish 1945, the year zero, return to life, departure of displaced persons, beginning of the new order, the subsequent revival years, a land without economy, and then the reconstruction of money and Marshall Plan.

It was my intention to present my experience of these periods, but it sems impossible to bring order in the text presented, to open a valuable contribution. Truth and falsities are so intermingled that nothing constructive can be written, and the only solution would be to rewrite by correcting group of words after group of words;

I will see if I can find a way to solve this difficulty, and come back.

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#9

Post by POW » 08 May 2003, 08:56

POW should try to collect some informations
LOL

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Help

#10

Post by Lobscouse » 12 May 2003, 02:15

I think that if POW really does live in Germany, he has collected all the information he will ever need to know all about the situation that existed in immediate post-war Germany.

Perhaps it makes us all feel so much better if we constantly highlight all the supposedly good deeds done by our side. We are The Liberators, the gift givers, freedom loving champions of the underdog. You owe us a lot, and should be more appreciative of what we have done for you. The same goes for those of you who claim such a high deathrate in the bombing of Hamburg and Dresden. Why do you not believe us?

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#11

Post by POW » 12 May 2003, 09:30

Lobscouse,
All Maple 01 and Alsaco were able to was offending me. Allegedly I have no I have no idea where I'm talking about. But we see that both promised to discuss this topic and failed to provide any facts. Even worser - they posted no reply at all. Now we know that apart from a big mouth they can't offer anything and "should try to collect some informations" on their own.

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#12

Post by Maple 01 » 12 May 2003, 16:10

Maple, if you like to gain more wisdom just give me a call.

sure, we'll debate this more,

not at the moment- other stuff on

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#13

Post by POW » 12 May 2003, 16:17

Maple 01 wrote:
Maple, if you like to gain more wisdom just give me a call.

sure, we'll debate this more,

not at the moment- other stuff on
:?

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#14

Post by Maple 01 » 12 May 2003, 16:59

I'm up to my neck in real-world work and haven't the time at the moment to do the research and quite sources - I will, please be patient. Post war Germany wasn’t built in a day!

regards

-Nick

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#15

Post by POW » 31 May 2003, 08:59

Either Maple is still up to his neck in real-world work or he has not the faintest idea. I'm very sure the latter one is his problem.

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