Bf 109 Legion Condor colour RLM 63.

[edgardo gil]

Please Can anybody tell me which is the real shade of the colour that used the 109 in the Spanish Civil War?
I know that the colour is RLM 63 but the shade; is light green like RLM 02 or is a Light Grey?
I have the same problem with the splinter scheme in three colours that used other aircrafts like the He 111 or Hs 123 for example.

[ChrisMAg2]

Describing a color with words maybe misleading. So I'll show digitized color samples:
The images are extracted from here:
http://www.clubhyper.com/

Regards
Christian M. Aguilar

[edgardo gil]

Thanks Chris, I appreciate your help. but tell me, which colour I must use to paint a 109 in one colur scheme or a He 111 in the splinter three colour scheme; the RLM 63 v1 or the RLM 63 v2?

[ChrisMAg2]

Version 1.
Version 2 is of a later date, 1941/42 IIRC.

[edgardo gil]

Are you sure Chris?, I want build the 109 and the He 111 during the spanish conflict (1936-39).
In 1941 the Luftwaffe used the RLM 02, not any version of the RLM 63.
My problem is about if I must use RLM 63 v1 or RLM 63 v2. I mean the green shade or the ligt grey shade of the RLM two versions.

[ChrisMAg2]

Your question started what the shade of RLM 63 was. The answer is greyish green (V1 in the chart), meaning it is basically green. So you have to choose the green version, which is V1 and not V2, because that is basically a grey.
During the Spanish Civil war 02 was not used as camoflage colour.

In 1941 the Luftwaffe used the RLM 02, not any version of the RLM 63.

Literary that is not true. But that is a different story.

Regards
Christian M. Aguilar

[edgardo gil]

Thanks for the info Chris. I have read long ago that the light grey shade of the RLM 63 was of civil use
before the war. Do you know anything of this? And in what case I must use this light gray shade?

[ChrisMAg2]

I.e. for light liason planes, trainers etc. or if you want a shade for a transporter avoiding the metallic grey shade.

[edgardo gil]

Alles Korrect Chris, thanks you.

[lidrob]

Edgardo
The correct name of the color is hellgrau, the different names or version are product of different books autors.
The chip of the colours which appeared in The Luftwaffe Colour Chart of Eagle Editions and in the LDv 521 color chart is a grey who tends to a green, so it´s a graugrün color (greenish o gris verdoso), is the FS 16165 in the FS 595B (not appeared 26165 or 36165)
It was to difficult to me found a comercial paint close to the colour.
From Argentina un abrazo

[ChrisMAg2]

And to bring even more confusion:
Please keep in mind, the rlm only used numbers, no names. It was the industry and later people, who brought in these names. The names are even more confusing as it is very difficult to distinguish i.e. a "Hellgrau" and a "Lichtgrau". Both are light greys. Both don't specify if the grey was neutral or tinted in any way (reddish, yellowish, greenish or blueish).
Especially the late war colors had a wide tolerance in this matter, think of RLM 76 which is known to have all five variaties.
Or RLM 81 which could have been a grey, a green or a reddish brown.

Regards
Christian M. Aguilar

[paulrward]

Gentlemen;

Perhaps it is time that we look at the situation of Condor Legion colours, not by what numbers people say were used, but by what we can see,and what they would have likely used. In other words, what makes sense.

Many of the aircraft were supplied in either four colour camoflage, ( Grey, DarkGreen, Brown, and Light Blue ) or Three Colour camoflage ( DarkGreen, BlackGreen, and Light Blue ) or in Overall Grey. In the first two cases, the appropriate Luftwaffe schemes were used.

Now for the aircraft that were Overall Grey. At this time, the aircraft operated by Lufthansa were in Overall Grey with Black trim, or Overall Bare Metal with Black trim. Some of the aircraft supplied early in the SCW apparently were marked in ways similar to Lufthansa aircraft ( He 70s and some of the Ju 52s spring to mind )

The Condor Legion Messerschmidt Bf 109s appear to be, with a few exceptions. mainly Overall grey with Black Trim. I doubt that anyone was mixing up paint specifically for them. So, what is most likely is that they were given a quick coat of either a light grey 'primer' or the very similar Lufthansa Grey, and sent to Spain, presumably to get an appropriate coat of camoflage when they arrived. Which they never did..... So, what we may be looking at might not be an exterior RLM colour, but rather either the Lufthansa Grey, or a Primer Grey. Both would allow the German government to deny that these were German military aircraft which were, in any case still unlawful under the Versaille Treaty.

I hope that I have served to further confuse the situation.

Respectfully;
Paul R. Ward

[edgardo gil]

Hi Paul; with Lufthansa grey, do you mean L40/52 grey?

[Akira Takiguchi]

This picture is not good enough but you get the idea.

[edgardo gil]

Great pic, I guess that the colour is more a light neutralgrey that a greenish shade like the green version of RLM63 similar to RLM02.
Thanks a lot Akira.