Greek relations to Nazi Germany

[JohnnieCash]

I know very little of the Metaxa regime in Greece but that it was a dictatorship similar to the one in Spain with Franco (although no civil war before). What I wonder about is which relations Greece had to Nazi Germany from 1936 when Metaxa arose as prime minister/dictator until the outbreak of the Greco/Italian war. Where there good/ relations between these countries and their leaders. Did they take any notice of each other, shared the same view of the world?

What I´m heading for is if it was plausible that Greece under Metaxa could be an ally/co-belligirent to the Axis.

As a happy amateur I purely base this on the fact they were both dictators and greece were in a situation similar to the one Francos spain were in, where if history had taken a slightly different part they could be allies. They both were ruled by dictators, they both could gain from an alliance with Germany (Spain gets african territory/supplies, Greece gets protection from Italy/promises of getting back Rhodos and other greek island to the motherland along with cyprus for example).

Of course I see one major drawback for this alliance, and it´s Mussolinis plans of invading and conquering Greece. But as I understood it Hitler didn´t know about these plans and maybe he could have stopped this invasion if having the time to get better relations/negotiations with Greece.

Please feel free to post any comments on this, and if wrong section feel free to move it to a more proper one.

Johnnie

[JohnnieCash]

Noone with some info on the subject? Or who know somewhere to find information about it? Can´t say the scenario is totaly ruled out for a least, so please any comments.

[Carl Schwamberger]

The Italian attack on Greece of course undermined Greek attitude towards the Axis. The subsequent German invasion further undercut the facist party. There remained a loyal core of facist party adherents, but increasing numbers of Greeks came to favor the anti Axis factions. When the German army evacuated Greece the facist milita was so weak it instantly disolved.

Had Italy not attacked Greece the Axis would have been aided by another friendly nuetral state on the Mediterrainian. I've no idea what it would have taken to make Greece a active Axis partner.

[''X'']

What I´m heading for is if it was plausible that Greece under Metaxa could be an ally/co-belligirent to the Axis.

As a happy amateur I purely base this on the fact they were both dictators and greece were in a situation similar to the one Francos spain were in, where if history had taken a slightly different part they could be allies. They both were ruled by dictators, they both could gain from an alliance with Germany (Spain gets african territory/supplies, Greece gets protection from Italy/promises of getting back Rhodos and other greek island to the motherland along with cyprus for example).

Johnnie

Metaxas was not a fascist,he was basicly a conservative right-wing monarchist/anticommunist,Greek patriot and veteran of the Balkan Wars.He had some fascist elements in his regime but his policy was that of neutrality.He foresaw the war that was coming and his concern was how to keep Greece neutral.However,he told that in case Greece joined the war,that would be on the side of the big naval powers.Furthermore don't forget that King George II had good relationships with Britain and Metaxas was not superior than the King.He tried to keep neutrality but when the Italian ambassador met him at 3 o'clock at night,28 October 1940,and read to him Italy's demands he answered : ''So,we have War!.

Metaxas regime created a big and well-funded youth organization (EON-National Youth Organization),under Metaxas command.EON according to Metaxas was based on the principles of fatherland,religion,family,roayalism and a very huge part of Greek youth belonged to EON.Girls were taught home duties,treatment of injured at hospitals etc, and boys were more into athletics and such activities.My grandfather was in EON,and when he was 16 years old each Saturday and some afternoons they were taken to mountains and trained in the use of rifles and organized in more paramilitary style.

Here are some EON pics



EON medal



If you have any other questions about Metaxas and his regime,the Greek-Italian war of 1940 feel free to ask

[JohnnieCash]

Intresting facts you present "X", you seem to have a lot knowledge about the subject. Your answer raises some questions though.

Even if the policy of Metaxa was neutrality I think he could be changed for the right price, may it be by earning something or not losing something. As example the kingdom of Yugoslavia signed the steel of pact frightened of invasion, Spain could have signed it had it´s demands not been so high. Don´t know how much you now of metaxas personality, but could he be a man that would see an opportunity to regain Greek territory from for example Italy, Britain or Yugoslavia? Or was his more intrested in keepin an eye on internal affairs avoiding foregin intervention? For me, as the conservative dictator he was, the prior seems more likely.

You also mentioned that an alliance would be with a big naval power. What is this based on, was it something proclaimed by Metaxa or anyone around him? Even if Greece was a somewhat Island nation the largest threat lay in the north from land hungry nations as Italy & Bulgaria. A alliance with Germany would rule them all out, but of course, on the other hand if Italy not have joined the axes due to greek in it or if they can´t manage to hold of the brits in the meditteranean Metaxa would have a problem keeping all of his islands intact from invasions.

Also you mention the good relations between the king and britan, something to take in to consideration. But you claim then the King was more in favour than for example Emmanuel III in Italy was when it came to politics?

All in all it seems more likely Greece would be neutral than in alliance wih the axis, but as said I have my questions. Hope they´re not to confusing or misleading.

regards
Johnnie.

Ps: Nice picture by the way of the medal, may I guess it´s your grandfathers and may I then ask what he got it for and if he served during the Balkan campaign?

[Linoxilos]

gooMetaxas was a dictator. Like in any dictatorship, the civilians were not free to protest against the ruler's decision, police brutality existed etc.

However, Metaxas is the one who estamblished the social insurance system in Greece. He preffered the germans instead of british.

It's said that Metaxas made a deal with Hilter. Hilter admired the ancient greek civilization, respected greeks and didn't want a war against Greece. He told Metaxas to remain neutral and he would not attack Greece.

According to Goebbels's diary, Hitler knew nothing about Mussolini's plans to attack Greece. Mussolini desired a war against Greece and wanted a cause.

In Greece, the 15th of August is a national Holiday (dedicated to Holy Mother). A traditional celebration takes place at the island of Teenos. An italian submarine attacked the ships in the harbor of Teenos. They sunk a greek war ship, they hit a number of merchant ships and the harbor. However, Metaxas took no action although he knew that war is coming. The attitude of italians made greeks more and more angry.

In 28th of October 1940 Hitler went to Italy by train. He learnt 9for the first time) that the italian army is attacking Greece. He didn't like that. He become angry. He decided not to get involved. If italians won, Greece would under Axis control. If they lost, Greece would remain free (and the deal with Metaxas would not be canceled).

Metaxas died, the government let the british step on greek territory and after the eastern attack of Italy (and second failure) Hitler (already descending to Balkans) continued to Greece.

[nickzark]

italy attacked Greece and after winning them, Germans helped italians and invated Greece.So Greeks didn't like Germans.Thats the fact

[Annelie]

So Greeks didn't like Germans.Thats the fact

Incorrect. Not all Greeks disliked Germans.

[nickzark]

So Greeks didn't like Germans.Thats the fact

Incorrect. Not all Greeks disliked Germans.

Yes its true.There was some that take profit- money from germans againts other greeks....

[Annelie]

Yes its true.There was some that take profit- money from germans againts other greeks....

Not speak about those Greeks but ordinary poor Greeks who found that there were good souls who
tried to help in small ways with food etc.

[nickzark]

dont believe that there were Germans that helped poor greeks.They had let them die from hungry.I have reed a book about thisit called ''Inside Hitler's Greece: The Experience of Occupation, 1941-44''....itsll inside there if you dont believe it

[KVS10104119]

Greek-German relations were to a degree influenced by the mutual respect held by powerful individuals within the two countries. Metaxas had received advanced staff training in Germany in the early 1900s, and deeply admired German discipline and culture. There were also some officers with pro-German feelings (e.g. III Corps commander Tsolakoglou). Goebbels and others in Germany likewise admired the culture and history of Ancient Greece. Economic ties between the two countries were strengthened in the late 1930s. But beyond these instances, widespread support for an alliance with Germany was non-existent. The Greek people were neither actively supportive of nor opposed to the Metaxas regime. As previously mentioned in another post, King George II was the main support behind Metaxas, and he was ardently pro-British. In fact, most of the Greek elites were staunchly pro-British. Metaxas was too loyal to the monarchy to oppose the will of King George, and he knew that Greece could never geographically side against the British. He was authoritarian and anti-republican, but he was no fascist. Support for fascist Italy was practically non-existent. Italian support for the Kemalists in the Asia Minor Campaign, as well as the Corfu Incident of 1923, had also left a lingering mistrust amongst the Greeks (this is before even taking into account the invasion of Albania, the strafing of the Hydra and the sinking of the Elli ).

Despite the increase in trade between the two countries, the economic ties did not have far-reaching consequences. Militarily, German armaments made a up a very small portion of the Greek arsenal by the time war broke out. This trend was starting to change a bit (procurement of German trucks, some light bombers and seaplanes, attempted switch from 6.5/54mm Mannlicher-Schonauer to 7.92mm Mauser as the standard ball ammo), but was still in preliminary stages.

As such, there was practically no chance that the Greeks would go over to the Axis under any circumstances. Another factor was that in any event, Greece would most likely have been forced to make some territorial concessions to Bulgaria in Macedonia and Thrace in exchange for keeping her sovereignty. No Greek leader would have been able to make that decision and hope to live another day. The same can be said for submitting to the Italian ultimatum of October 28, 1940.

[Chinaski1917]

"Not speak about those Greeks but ordinary poor Greeks who found that there were good souls who
tried to help in small ways with food etc."

Sorry to say but it seems you know nothing very little about what the Greeks thought and still think of the Nazi Germans. I mean the vast majority of Greeks not the lookalike-fascists and the ultra - right wing groups collaborating and ratting out resistance members like the "X" group.

Metaxas had the whole thing trying to work for him in Greece, he had the Nazi salute , uniforms marches and all militarism stuff going on. He was a dictator ofcourse but it didn't work so good as in Italy or Germany.

I