In Mauser Military Rifles of the World by Robert W.D. Ball p.48, reference is made to Belgian produced model 1935 sniper rifle in 7.65mm.
The source for this information is given in the book as a KfG (a German listing of foreign weapons I believe) listing of 1-9-43.
(see http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=KlRe ... t#PPA48,M1 for these details given in a preview.
I did not see any comment as to the existance of snipers while studying the TOE of a Belgian Infantry Regiment and its sub units. However http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=5998 shows that the French used snipers in WW1 and the Belgians tended to follow the French approach to tactics and so it is a possibility.
So this of course leads to the question of whether there were any Belgian snipers.
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Were there any Belgian snipers in 5-40?
Re: Were there any Belgian snipers in 5-40?
Hi Daveh,
Sorry, it isn't much help but this is all I know of this subject:
- WW1 snipers were present in the Belgian army but in WW2 I can only speculate.
Prior and during WW1 the Belgian army had "elite shooters" and the Belgian army sure used snipers in the trench warfare.
These elite shooters wore there official shooting compition price insignia on their left sleve.
During the interbelum there to were shooting compitions for rifles, heavy MG, ...etc and those that won a price during such a compition had it noted in their "Livret Militaire" (a kind of paybook) but I don't know of any official shooting price winner insignia that would have been worn on the uniform.
I have never seen any evidence that the Belgian army trained snipers in the interbelum or a picture and/or document that a Belgian soldier was equiped with a scoop.
Also I have no knowledge of Belgian sniping units during the 18 day campagne.
It is strange because I know for a fact that they had snipers during WW1, I suppose the Belgian army didn't trough away their sniper rifles after WW1.
If snipers would have existed and scoops have been available in the Belgian army imo they would have been used on regimental or divisional level.
Cheers,
Peter
Sorry, it isn't much help but this is all I know of this subject:
- WW1 snipers were present in the Belgian army but in WW2 I can only speculate.
Prior and during WW1 the Belgian army had "elite shooters" and the Belgian army sure used snipers in the trench warfare.
These elite shooters wore there official shooting compition price insignia on their left sleve.
During the interbelum there to were shooting compitions for rifles, heavy MG, ...etc and those that won a price during such a compition had it noted in their "Livret Militaire" (a kind of paybook) but I don't know of any official shooting price winner insignia that would have been worn on the uniform.
I have never seen any evidence that the Belgian army trained snipers in the interbelum or a picture and/or document that a Belgian soldier was equiped with a scoop.
Also I have no knowledge of Belgian sniping units during the 18 day campagne.
It is strange because I know for a fact that they had snipers during WW1, I suppose the Belgian army didn't trough away their sniper rifles after WW1.
If snipers would have existed and scoops have been available in the Belgian army imo they would have been used on regimental or divisional level.
Cheers,
Peter
Re: Were there any Belgian snipers in 5-40?
Thanks peter
Iwas vaguely aware of WW1 snipers but hadn't looke dfor Belgian examples.
As far as I can see most nations seem to have let the idea of the sniper atrophy after WW1. Skilled shoots and those with a natural talent for the role were used on an ad hoc basis eg in Spain but there seems to be little evidence for formal sniper training rather than just encouraging marksmanship.
Iwas vaguely aware of WW1 snipers but hadn't looke dfor Belgian examples.
As far as I can see most nations seem to have let the idea of the sniper atrophy after WW1. Skilled shoots and those with a natural talent for the role were used on an ad hoc basis eg in Spain but there seems to be little evidence for formal sniper training rather than just encouraging marksmanship.
Re: Were there any Belgian snipers in 5-40?
Hi Daveh,
The Belgian army leadership certainly encouraged good marksmanship, extra leave & trophies could be won by wining shooting tournements, I have seen evidence of that specially prior to WW1 but also prior to May 1940.
But I haven't seen any evidence for snipertraining in the interbelum period, I think that was something typical for the trenchwarfare of WW1.
Also it seems that the Belgian army abolished the excellent marksmen insignia (tireur d'elite) on the uniform of the soldiers in the interbelum; I must add that I'am not absolutly sure of this fact but I can't find any picture reference of a Belgian soldier in a 1930's uniform with marksman prices on his sleve.
It also puzzles me what the Belgian army did with their sniper- and special trenchwarfare rifles in the interbelum.
Cheers,
Peter
The Belgian army leadership certainly encouraged good marksmanship, extra leave & trophies could be won by wining shooting tournements, I have seen evidence of that specially prior to WW1 but also prior to May 1940.
But I haven't seen any evidence for snipertraining in the interbelum period, I think that was something typical for the trenchwarfare of WW1.
Also it seems that the Belgian army abolished the excellent marksmen insignia (tireur d'elite) on the uniform of the soldiers in the interbelum; I must add that I'am not absolutly sure of this fact but I can't find any picture reference of a Belgian soldier in a 1930's uniform with marksman prices on his sleve.
It also puzzles me what the Belgian army did with their sniper- and special trenchwarfare rifles in the interbelum.
Cheers,
Peter
Re: Were there any Belgian snipers in 5-40?
I haven't found any info on Belgian snipers in WWII. So far as following the French, I understand the French did not have any "sniper" training Interbellum. When war came, they used the same sniper rifles they had in WWI; the sniper rifles were issued to marksmen or just plain good shots. My best guess is that this is what the Belgians did also.
I have never read anything about a M1935 sniper rifle, either -- I has *assumed* they, like the French, were using their WWI models. Do you know if the M1935 was in fact adopted by the Belgian army, or might have been something FN made for foreign sales, etc.? Do you have a photo, or more information than is in your link?
I have never read anything about a M1935 sniper rifle, either -- I has *assumed* they, like the French, were using their WWI models. Do you know if the M1935 was in fact adopted by the Belgian army, or might have been something FN made for foreign sales, etc.? Do you have a photo, or more information than is in your link?
Re: Were there any Belgian snipers in 5-40?
Hello Ardee, thanks for your info.
I am afraid I have no further information concerning a M1935 sniper rifle. I am far from an expert on the matter of small arms and it was while searching for more general imformation on Belgian small arms that I came across that particular snippet.
The issue/use of insignia is something I know virtually nothing about so that imformation was interesting and useful. The lack of any identifying "sniper badge" adds to the general impression of there being no Belgian snipers as such in 1940.
(further searches on the web have revealed that a question about Belgian M 35 sniper rifles has been asked (on 3-9-08) on the gunboards.com forum at:
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread. ... ht=belgian
no answers yet...)
I am afraid I have no further information concerning a M1935 sniper rifle. I am far from an expert on the matter of small arms and it was while searching for more general imformation on Belgian small arms that I came across that particular snippet.
The issue/use of insignia is something I know virtually nothing about so that imformation was interesting and useful. The lack of any identifying "sniper badge" adds to the general impression of there being no Belgian snipers as such in 1940.
(further searches on the web have revealed that a question about Belgian M 35 sniper rifles has been asked (on 3-9-08) on the gunboards.com forum at:
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread. ... ht=belgian
no answers yet...)
Re: Were there any Belgian snipers in 5-40?
see
http://abl1914to1940.aceboard.
under armaments and
then armaments du fantassin
for an informative discussion concerning Belgian snipers
http://abl1914to1940.aceboard.
under armaments and
then armaments du fantassin
for an informative discussion concerning Belgian snipers
Re: Were there any Belgian snipers in 5-40?
This is a link to the Belgian order of battle on the Niehorster site: http://niehorster.orbat.com/021_belgium ... f-rgt.html
Scout units in Belgian infantry battalions and companies are armed with scoped rifles => sniper rifles.
Scout units in Belgian infantry battalions and companies are armed with scoped rifles => sniper rifles.