Belgium infantry weapons

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The Edge
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Re: Belgium infantry weapons

#31

Post by The Edge » 13 Apr 2009, 15:45

daveh wrote: As the Colt model 1903 was basically the same as the FN model 1900 there was little difficulty in introducing this American built gun into the Belgian Army.
Browning 1900:
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg117-e.htm
Colt 1903:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Model ... Hammerless

Only two similarities: caliber (.32 ACP or 7.65x17mm(SR)) and the Designer (J.M.Browning)

Otherwise, two completely different pistols.

SVaaka
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Re: Belgium infantry weapons

#32

Post by SVaaka » 17 Apr 2009, 11:45

daveh wrote:In a list of captured Belgian pistols I have found the following
Pistole 622 (b) Belgian contract Colt Pocket pistol, Cal 32acp
Pistole 622(b) - Belgian 1903 cal. 9mm Browning Long

SVaaka do you happen to know why 2 different guns (different makers and different calibres) should be given the same Fremdgeräte (foreign equipment) number?
Could this be the source of the confusion regarding the Mle 1903 COLT and the FN Mle 1903?


I will look at what information I have concerning the distribution of the different models of pistols in Belgian units in May 1940. So far I can say I have seen no mention of the colt in use in the standard infantry regiment.
Well I gotta admit, it is so long since I have checked the fremden gerät list, but this could be one of the reasons to that confusion. Addition to this have many authors distributed this wrong information decades in their books without checking their claims from original recouses - which by the way - I have done.
Also thing that these two guns are often handeled as same - also in many boards in webb - is somewhat disturburbing. Cause no matter what FN Mle 1903 and Colt 1903 are, have been and are absolutely diffrent guns.


daveh
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Re: Belgium infantry weapons

#33

Post by daveh » 17 Apr 2009, 12:51

Thanks The Edge and SVaaka for clearing that point up. Small arms are not really my interest but Still need to know about them...

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peeved
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Re: Belgium infantry weapons

#34

Post by peeved » 18 Apr 2009, 08:23

daveh wrote:In a list of captured Belgian pistols I have found the following
Pistole 622 (b) Belgian contract Colt Pocket pistol, Cal 32acp
Pistole 622(b) - Belgian 1903 cal. 9mm Browning Long

SVaaka do you happen to know why 2 different guns (different makers and different calibres) should be given the same Fremdgeräte (foreign equipment) number?
Could this be the source of the confusion regarding the Mle 1903 COLT and the FN Mle 1903?
Couldn't find any examples of FN Model 1903 listed under any country in my reprint of "Kennblätter fremden Geräts, Handwaffen - Vom 20.3.41". Colt Model 1903 was the only Pistole 622 (b) in that list.

Suppose that theoretically there might have been double entries in an earlier list: e.g. there were after all two completely different MGs with the name MG 30 (t) in Wehrmacht inventory. More likely some writer got the two 1903s mixed up somewhere along the line

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JBbelgium
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Re: Belgium infantry weapons

#35

Post by JBbelgium » 06 Sep 2015, 19:33

Platoon Firepower comparisons
British: 3 MGs, 0 rifle grenade launchers 0 50mm mortar
German: 3 MGs, 3 rifle grenade launchers 1 50mm mortar
French: 3 MGs, 3 rifle grenade launchers 0 50mm mortar
Belgian: 4 MGs, 0 rifle grenade launchers 3 50mm mortar

The British, French and Belgian MGs were similar in performance while the German had a much higher rate of fire.
The 50 mm D.B.T. grenade launchers provided a heavier and longer range source of firepower than the 3 rifle grenade launchers of the French or German platoons and the extra 2 50 mm weapons comapred with the single German 50 mm mortar gave greater flexibility and firepower.
To achieve this extra firepower a Belgian platoon was c 40% larger than a German platoon.
Each British platoon had one 2-inch mortar according to that source. (And a Boyes anti-tankrifle.)
British: 3 MGs, 0 rifle grenade launchers 1 50mm mortar
German: 3 MGs, 3 rifle grenade launchers 1 50mm mortar
French: 3 MGs, 3 rifle grenade launchers 0 50mm mortar
Belgian: 4 MGs, 0 rifle grenade launchers 3 50mm mortar

The Germans were short on MG34's in 1940. Many divisions used the old water-cooled MG08 as a heavy machinegun and the MG13 as light machineguns. Captured Czech MG26(t) were also used in 1940, especially by the Waffen SS divisions. The MG13 and MG26(t) are loaded with 25/20 round magazines and are similar to the Allied weapons.

The crews of the DBT's were all armed with the FN Browning GP (High Power) pistol. This gun held 13 rounds of 9mm Parabellum. A lot more than the 8 rounds of the Luger or the British revolvers. So they actually had a pretty decent firepower at close ranges.

Of course this is just a platoon versus platoon comparison. The Belgians had relatively fewer weapons at battalion and regimental compared to the Germans.

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