Spain in WW2
Spain in WW2
I saw that a lot of members from this forum have quite complex knowledge of the WW2. I would like to know what was the position of Spain in WW2. Why didn't Spain join the Axis, after Germany helped Gen. Franco? Any input on this subject is appreciated.
I'll try with an answer...Spanish situation was very complex
Reasons unwilling to help
1. National Exhaustion from Spanish Civil war 500,000 dead(?) , economy in ruins
2. Vulnerability.....British could sieze Canary Islands, Spanish Morrocco and Perhaps Bealric Islands. Also Spain was very vulnerable to British bombing campaigns, blockades etc
3. Lack of military capability....Franco's victory was narrow in terms of public support, thousands in Nationalist army were conscripts and many wanted to go home. Many were demobilized after war in an effort to win hearts of population.
(a)Dedicated Nationalists are busy garrisoning Republican areas and mopping up continuing light resistance from Republican supporters.
(b)If Franco joined war....possibility of large scale, British supported pro Republican / seperatist resistance (especialy in Catolonia and Basque areas)
(c)Franco's Army was not equipped for modern warfare against an industrialized opponent.
4. Franco's Intelligence.....Personal opinion that Franco was very smart had a very, very good grasp of Strategic situation. Far better grasp than many NAZIS
AZUL Division allowed pro intervention Spaniards to contribute to Germany's cause with out dragging Spain into war. I think Franco commited Division to satisfy Pro Nazi demands for spanish invovlement.
Reasons unwilling to help
1. National Exhaustion from Spanish Civil war 500,000 dead(?) , economy in ruins
2. Vulnerability.....British could sieze Canary Islands, Spanish Morrocco and Perhaps Bealric Islands. Also Spain was very vulnerable to British bombing campaigns, blockades etc
3. Lack of military capability....Franco's victory was narrow in terms of public support, thousands in Nationalist army were conscripts and many wanted to go home. Many were demobilized after war in an effort to win hearts of population.
(a)Dedicated Nationalists are busy garrisoning Republican areas and mopping up continuing light resistance from Republican supporters.
(b)If Franco joined war....possibility of large scale, British supported pro Republican / seperatist resistance (especialy in Catolonia and Basque areas)
(c)Franco's Army was not equipped for modern warfare against an industrialized opponent.
4. Franco's Intelligence.....Personal opinion that Franco was very smart had a very, very good grasp of Strategic situation. Far better grasp than many NAZIS
AZUL Division allowed pro intervention Spaniards to contribute to Germany's cause with out dragging Spain into war. I think Franco commited Division to satisfy Pro Nazi demands for spanish invovlement.
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Alternative Scenario
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Can not help but agree with your logic!
But I think it was closer call than you suggest!
Franco believed he owed the Germans and Italians a lot for their supprt during the Civil War - but because the reasons you cited could not become a participant!
He also made unreasonable (in the Germans view) demands regarding supplies and foodstuffs and basically annoyed Hitler!
Look at it from Hitler's point of view why should he negociate with anybody after conquering most of Western Europe.
Also Franco feared a German invasion (to attack Gibraltar) if he did not join the Axis - apparently Canaris the head of Abwehr told Franco not to worry Hilter was preparing to invade Russia and an invasion of Spain was not on the cards!
I do think you slightly overestimate the British military might in 1940-41! The Brits could not have mounted a seaborne assault on Spanish Morocco without American help. An attack on the Canary Islands was possible but if Hitler had been able to rush a brigade of German paras to secure the islands plus a few planes - the success of such a venture would have been problematical to say the least!
But I think it was closer call than you suggest!
Franco believed he owed the Germans and Italians a lot for their supprt during the Civil War - but because the reasons you cited could not become a participant!
He also made unreasonable (in the Germans view) demands regarding supplies and foodstuffs and basically annoyed Hitler!
Look at it from Hitler's point of view why should he negociate with anybody after conquering most of Western Europe.
Also Franco feared a German invasion (to attack Gibraltar) if he did not join the Axis - apparently Canaris the head of Abwehr told Franco not to worry Hilter was preparing to invade Russia and an invasion of Spain was not on the cards!
I do think you slightly overestimate the British military might in 1940-41! The Brits could not have mounted a seaborne assault on Spanish Morocco without American help. An attack on the Canary Islands was possible but if Hitler had been able to rush a brigade of German paras to secure the islands plus a few planes - the success of such a venture would have been problematical to say the least!
I think you have good points....there were alot of factors involved and British strength was limited.Alternative Scenario wrote:
An attack on the Canary Islands was possible but if Hitler had been able to rush a brigade of German paras to secure the islands plus a few planes - the success of such a venture would have been problematical to say the least!
Franco owed Axis alot....but I think I remember reading that in addition to other factors.....
Franco may of had a personal dislike for some NAZI hierachy and even some of the Pro NAZI Spanish Falangists. Who knows....maybe he and some other Spaniards found the NAZI Blond Hair Blue Eyed Nordic rhetoric to be annoying.
I am going to post a question about this in Spanish Civil war area.
I disagree with Paras to Canaries though. They are along ways out there through waters controled by the Royal Navy. I think they would have just been isolated, blasted by Battleships and then over run Island by Island.
1 Million tons of canadian wheat per year basically.
For further details read these
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/wwii/spain/spmenu.htm
For further details read these
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/wwii/spain/spmenu.htm
Another possible reason that Franco stayed out of the war was
because that he, although virulently anti-Bolshevik, did not
like Hitler's violent anti-Semitism and anti-Slav racism.
The Poles were Catholics and Franco was probably
uncomfortable with the horrible repression they were
suffering under the Nazis. Also, a considerable percentage
of the population of Spain has Jewish ancestry, due to
a signficant part of the Jewish population of Spain at
the time of the expulsion of 1492 deciding to remain
and convert to Christianity, eventually assimilating
into the general population. It is believed that Franco
was aware of having Jewish ancestry (the name
Franco is relatively common among Jews of Spanish
ancestry and is relatively common in Israel) and thus
it would not be surprising that he would be appalled
at Hitler's genocidal racism.
because that he, although virulently anti-Bolshevik, did not
like Hitler's violent anti-Semitism and anti-Slav racism.
The Poles were Catholics and Franco was probably
uncomfortable with the horrible repression they were
suffering under the Nazis. Also, a considerable percentage
of the population of Spain has Jewish ancestry, due to
a signficant part of the Jewish population of Spain at
the time of the expulsion of 1492 deciding to remain
and convert to Christianity, eventually assimilating
into the general population. It is believed that Franco
was aware of having Jewish ancestry (the name
Franco is relatively common among Jews of Spanish
ancestry and is relatively common in Israel) and thus
it would not be surprising that he would be appalled
at Hitler's genocidal racism.
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fredleander
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- Location: Stockholm
- Contact:
Probably true. But Franco couldn't be sure about that. What he saw was that the Brits kept up their position in the med and strafed the French in Oran. First of all, I think Franco simply was fed up by war and knew his resources were completely inadequate. There might even be restrains going back to the Napoleonic war about not grippling with the RN. Remember Trafalgar!Alternative Scenario wrote:I do think you slightly overestimate the British military might in 1940-41! The Brits could not have mounted a seaborne assault on Spanish Morocco without American help. An attack on the Canary Islands was possible but if Hitler had been able to rush a brigade of German paras to secure the islands plus a few planes - the success of such a venture would have been problematical to say the least!
In July 1940, both Franco and Hitler believed that Germany had all but won the war. So Franco wanted in, to share with the spoil. Hitler was not interested in sharing with Franco - Germany wanted bits of Morocco, too ! - and even less so in sending a huge economical aid package to a dirt-poor nation whose military contribution would be marginal. So Franco asked, and Hitler stalled.
During the summer of 1940, it appeared that Britain would not, after all, "come to its senses" and the war would continue. Hitler still believed he would win, though he now had to work for it instead of waiting for the British to surrender. In that respect, he looked at a network of alliances to pursue a Mediterranean strategy while unleashing the Luftwaffe against Britain itself. Essentially, he saw no real way to beat the Brits and, as he wasn't a particularly patient man, he wanted to move straight to the sweets: invading the Soviet Union and killing millions of "subhumans".
So in October 1940, he met Franco and Pétain. However, Franco's enthusiasm had cooled by then: Britain had not surrendered, it had won the Battle of Britain, it might end up losing the war but the conflict was clearly going to drag on for a while, and the USA was making some very distressing (to a nation like Spain) diplomatic noises about cracking down on nations supporting the Axis. From his point of view, the situation was far less favorable than it had appeared to be in July (and right he was). So he stuck to his demands: French Morocco, plus French Mauritania, plus bits of the former German colonies in sub-Saharian Africa (Cameroon), plus a very fat check, plus German military deliveries (particularly heavy artillery) to help capture Gibraltar and of course no way that the Germans were going to be allowed to operate bases in these "Spanish" territories. This was a very unappealing deal. At the same time, Hitler met Pétain who told him in a nutshell that Vichy was ready to collaborate (whatever that meant) providing of course that the French colonial empire was left intact. By then, Vichy France had demonstrated that it was willing (Mers el-Kébir) and able (Dakar) to defend itself against British encroachments, so just doing nothing and sticking with the statu quo seemed the better deal.
Shortly afterwards, Hitler definitely settled for "let's attack the Soviet Union to solve all our problems" (which it didn't quite do, though it certainly helped take his mind off Morocco
) and asking Spain to join the war was left to Mussolini, Raeder, and the "Mediterranean" faction within the Axis. Needless to say that Franco stalled.
The last time when these talks took place was in late '42 and early '43, following Torch, when the Axis - by then desperate - asked Spain to join the war so as to make things more complicated to the Allies in North Africa. By then, however, Franco had fully realized that the plan was to sacrifice Spain to buy time for Germany and he had no intention of cooperating.
All of this to say that there was a window of opportunity for Spain to join the war, but it closed relatively quickly. Also, and more importantly, there never was a point when both Franco and Hitler would agree that the Spain joining the war was a good deal - this is the same reason why Hitler and Stalin never settled for peace - and one of the reasons was that Spain basically had very little to offer but asked very much in return. All in all, Franco's attitude wasn't quite as flamboyant as Mussolini's (which is why there are so many more books written about WWII Italy than about WWII Spain) but more conducive to a long reign.
Another interesting question is whether the Spaniards would have been better off with losing WWII (and attendant suffering: bombing, food shortages, etc) and getting a democracy + Marshall Plan postwar than they historically were.
During the summer of 1940, it appeared that Britain would not, after all, "come to its senses" and the war would continue. Hitler still believed he would win, though he now had to work for it instead of waiting for the British to surrender. In that respect, he looked at a network of alliances to pursue a Mediterranean strategy while unleashing the Luftwaffe against Britain itself. Essentially, he saw no real way to beat the Brits and, as he wasn't a particularly patient man, he wanted to move straight to the sweets: invading the Soviet Union and killing millions of "subhumans".
So in October 1940, he met Franco and Pétain. However, Franco's enthusiasm had cooled by then: Britain had not surrendered, it had won the Battle of Britain, it might end up losing the war but the conflict was clearly going to drag on for a while, and the USA was making some very distressing (to a nation like Spain) diplomatic noises about cracking down on nations supporting the Axis. From his point of view, the situation was far less favorable than it had appeared to be in July (and right he was). So he stuck to his demands: French Morocco, plus French Mauritania, plus bits of the former German colonies in sub-Saharian Africa (Cameroon), plus a very fat check, plus German military deliveries (particularly heavy artillery) to help capture Gibraltar and of course no way that the Germans were going to be allowed to operate bases in these "Spanish" territories. This was a very unappealing deal. At the same time, Hitler met Pétain who told him in a nutshell that Vichy was ready to collaborate (whatever that meant) providing of course that the French colonial empire was left intact. By then, Vichy France had demonstrated that it was willing (Mers el-Kébir) and able (Dakar) to defend itself against British encroachments, so just doing nothing and sticking with the statu quo seemed the better deal.
Shortly afterwards, Hitler definitely settled for "let's attack the Soviet Union to solve all our problems" (which it didn't quite do, though it certainly helped take his mind off Morocco
) and asking Spain to join the war was left to Mussolini, Raeder, and the "Mediterranean" faction within the Axis. Needless to say that Franco stalled.The last time when these talks took place was in late '42 and early '43, following Torch, when the Axis - by then desperate - asked Spain to join the war so as to make things more complicated to the Allies in North Africa. By then, however, Franco had fully realized that the plan was to sacrifice Spain to buy time for Germany and he had no intention of cooperating.
All of this to say that there was a window of opportunity for Spain to join the war, but it closed relatively quickly. Also, and more importantly, there never was a point when both Franco and Hitler would agree that the Spain joining the war was a good deal - this is the same reason why Hitler and Stalin never settled for peace - and one of the reasons was that Spain basically had very little to offer but asked very much in return. All in all, Franco's attitude wasn't quite as flamboyant as Mussolini's (which is why there are so many more books written about WWII Italy than about WWII Spain) but more conducive to a long reign.
Another interesting question is whether the Spaniards would have been better off with losing WWII (and attendant suffering: bombing, food shortages, etc) and getting a democracy + Marshall Plan postwar than they historically were.