37mm Madsen Anti-tank gun

[Tony E.]

Doea anyone have any pictures of this gun?
From what i understand it was a license built Bofors, but there is hardly anything about it anywhere.


mvh.

Tony E.

[Robert Hurst]

Hi Tony

I thought that you would be interested in the following pic of the 3.7 cm Madsen Model 35 anti-tank gun that I have found in a copy of WW2 Fact Files Anti-Tank Weapons, by Peter Chamberlain and Terry Gander.

Designed in the late 1930s, the Model 35 was modelled very closely on the Swedish Bofors gun and a small quantity was bought by the Danish Army. it was remarkably light amd low with a well-sloped shield. The gun appears in German records as the 3.7 cm Pak 164(d), but what use they made of it is not known.

Data

Calibre: 37 mm (1.46 in)
Length of piece: 2220 mm (87.4 in)
Traverse: 60 deg
Elevation: - 10 deg to + 24 deg
Weight in action: 340 kg (750 lb)
Weight travelling: 540 kg (1,190 lb)
Shell weight: 0.8 kg (1.75 lb)
Muzzle velocity: 900 m/s (2,950 ft/sec)

Regards

Bob

[Redwire]

Danish 37mm Madsen Antigun, with crew in Haderslev, on April 9th 1940.


Shortly after:

[Tony Williams]

Ammunition for the Madsen was different from the Bofors - the cartridge case was wider. Also, only very small quantities of the ammunition were made and it seems that the gun didn't proceed beyond test status.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion
forum

[Redwire]

Ammunition for the Madsen was different from the Bofors - the cartridge case was wider. Also, only very small quantities of the ammunition were made and it seems that the gun didn't proceed beyond test status.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion
forum

It was in general use in the danish army, with 6 gun per infantry Regiment, which makes that least 48 guns in active service. I dont know how many formed part of the reserve.

The differes in at least one other way from the Bofors version by having a longer barrel (ca. 10cm). In the danish armory museum do they both have one of the Bofors version and the danish Madsen side by side, the differens is clear, the Madsen version is longer and lighter in its construction, while the Bofors version looks more rough.

[Tony Williams]

There seems to be an interesting discrepancy here. I have a booklet on the Madsen 37mm ammunition, which provides some information about the gun as well. All of the Madsen ammunition was made by ICI in England and they only made very small quantities of the 37mm, only for test and demonstration purposes. The booklet comments that the gun was very heavy and says that 'it is hard to identify any army that actually took the 37mm Madsen gun into service. The Danish Army certainly examined it and ordered very limited quantities of ammunition in 1937.'

I suspect that we are talking about two different guns: Madsen's own design, which used their own ammunition and was not adopted for service, and a Madsen-built Bofors gun which used Bofors ammunition and was adopted by the Danish Army.

Tony Williams

[Redwire]

Denmark had two types of 37mm AT guns in service, the M34 and the M35, the M34 is the Bofors gun bought from Sweden and the M35 is the Madesen version.

The 37mm gun you are refer to is most likely one of the indigenuos experiment designs that Madsen and DISA tested together with their AP tungsten-core ammo . I have only seen them refered to in some german WW2 texts, that one of my friends fund in some old book, I think I will give him a call.

[Tony Williams]

Denmark had two types of 37mm AT guns in service, the M34 and the M35, the M34 is the Bofors gun bought from Sweden and the M35 is the Madesen version.

The 37mm gun you are refer to is most likely one of the indigenuos experiment designs that Madsen and DISA tested together with their AP tungsten-core ammo . I have only seen them refered to in some german WW2 texts, that one of my friends fund in some old book, I think I will give him a call.

It is certainly an indigenous experiment, but although drawings of several different HE and AP projectiles are included, none of them is tungsten-cored.

Tony Williams

[ain92]

Here're two photos from the Patton Museum at Ft. Knox, KY:


Details see here: http://www.williammaloney.com/Aviation/ ... /index.htm

[Juha Tompuri]

Here're two photos from the Patton Museum at Ft. Knox, KY:

Thank you.
Looks quite similar to the Bofors AT-gun.
For comparison, here photos about the Tampella licence manufactured Bofors gun.
Photos are from the collection of the author of this masterpiece:


http://www.eskoff.net/mporssi.htm
http://www.apali.fi/uk/tap_uk.html

[ain92]

Here're two photos from the Patton Museum at Ft. Knox, KY:

Thank you.
Looks quite similar to the Bofors AT-gun.
For comparison, here photos about the Tampella licence manufactured Bofors gun.

Thank you for the interesting photos. I found both guns in the Danish Royal Arsenal Museum ("Armory", Tøjhusmuseet):

This one is Madsen.

And this seems to be Bofors.
You can see they are very similar, I'ld even say the first is the modification of the second.
PS
Bonus: another Madsen here.

[Juha Tompuri]

Well...thank you again.
Here some more "Danish Boforses":
http://www.chakoten.dk/modx/milit%C3%A6 ... -1932-1941
http://www.chakoten.dk/danbrig_tinf_1.html
http://www.chakoten.dk/danbrig_tinf_2.html
http://www.chakoten.dk/danbrig_flaade.html

Regards, Juha

[ain92]

Thank you again for the weblinks. =)
Suddenly autors of this site don't distinguish Bofors and Madsen guns. May we ask Redwire for extra commentary via PM or there is no chance that he'll answer?
I also noticed that there were three types of wheels: original "solid" wheels like on most Bofors guns, wheels with five cuts like on Madsen guns above and spoke wheels.
Regards, Ilya.

[Juha Tompuri]

Hi Ilya,

I also noticed that there were three types of wheels: original "solid" wheels like on most Bofors guns, wheels with five cuts like on Madsen guns above and spoke wheels.

Yes.
My guess is that the solid wheels were of Bofors manufacture and the two others were of Madsen design.
Like here, similar style, spoked: http://www.chakoten.dk/modx/milit%C3%A6 ... 1941-del-4
...and "five cut": http://www.winterwar.com/Weapons/FinAT/ ... ank.htm#20

Bofors AT-gun history, Danish part:

DENMARK Ff.K M.34 and M.37
In 1934 Denmark bought one 37 mm gun m/34 D. In 1936-37 Denmark bought licence rights and parts for 68 guns. The type was designed Fodfolkskanon (Infantry Gun) Ff.K M.34 and produced in Denmark by Haerens Vaabenarsenal (Army Arms Depot).

In 1937 Denmark bought 4 improved guns known as m/36 D wich were accepted as Fodfolkskanon Ff.K M.37. In 1939 Denmark bought licence rights and parts for 20 guns followed 1940 by parts for another 10 guns and 1941-42 for 14 guns.

Summary: 69 pcs Ff.K M.34 and 48 pcs Ff.K M.37.

In 1944-45 a Danish Brigade was trained in Sweden for taking part of the liberation of Denmark. The Bde was issued 36 pcs ex-Swedish 37 mm guns m/38 of which 16 in the Infantry Support Bn and 20 in the Armoured Unit. The latter was not committed into action in 1945.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/t ... mm+AT+Guns

The end part of the text above perhaps explaining the Danish solid wheel guns (also equipped with the curved shield upper edge):

http://www.chakoten.dk/danbrig_flaade.html


About the production/assembly I have found the following.
This should be from the Bofors archives, my transtation:

-Denmark purcased one 37mm IK (=Infantry gun, JT) L/45 m/34D .
-1937/36 obtained a license and ordered 68 semi-finished products
-Four 37mm IK L/50 m/36D to Denmark. (Year? , JT)
-1939 obtained a license.
- 20 semi-finished barrels (Year?, JT)
- 1940 delivered 10 sets of gun parts.
-1941/42 14 sets of gun parts for the 1939 model guns

http://forum.skalman.nu/viewtopic.php?f ... it#p455983

Some more info, my translation:

(German designation, JT)3,7 cm PaK 157 (d)
Danish designations 37 mm Fodfolkskanon M 34 and M 37
117 pieces of which 5 produced by Bofors and the rest assembled by Haerens Vaabenarsenal from parts from Bofors.

Photo: M 34 (whees later changed to more modern type)

http://forum.skalman.nu/viewtopic.php?f ... 66#p458994

Regards, Juha

[Alexander Taper-Bore]

Bringing this subject to life again.

Note the picture of the Madsen 37mm gun (the one from Chamberlain and Gander) is closely resembling the Kongsberg 37mm (apart from the carriage).
http://www.kvf.no/vaapen.php?type=Kanon&weaponid=KA0019
My Norwegian is not that good, but I gather the Danes ordered these guns from Kongsberg.
Awaiting your reactions...