New Kursk book - Kursk, The Battle of Prokhorovka

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Michate
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Re: New Kursk book - Kursk, The Battle of Prokhorovka

#31

Post by Michate » 11 Sep 2015, 21:27

I already preordered the book, but have two more questions as what to expect:

- Does the book contain detailed tactical/operational analysis (as opposed to mere description of the fighting), including, e.g., comparisons of force structures, unit organisation, battle orders, training, combat methods, command systems, communications, role and importance of different arms or weapons, air support, supply and logistical systems, armor maintenance and repair capabilities, and how all this affected the way the battle was fought or its result?

- Does the book contain detailed tactical maps, e.g. divisional or corps sectors, day-by-day (I would guess yes, based on just the number of maps mentioned in the teaser)?

RZM Imports
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Re: New Kursk book - Kursk, The Battle of Prokhorovka

#32

Post by RZM Imports » 14 Sep 2015, 01:30

This mammoth sized book is going to weigh in at 13 lbs. with the box and packing.
For those of you who are living on the East Coast and want to save some money on shipping you can
reserve a copy with RZM Imports as well. The books will ship from Connecticut.
http://www.rzm.com/books/ab/ab5252.cfm


Meyer
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Re: New Kursk book - Kursk, The Battle of Prokhorovka

#33

Post by Meyer » 16 Sep 2015, 07:55

Michate wrote:I already preordered the book, but have two more questions as what to expect:

- Does the book contain detailed tactical/operational analysis (as opposed to mere description of the fighting), including, e.g., comparisons of force structures, unit organisation, battle orders, training, combat methods, command systems, communications, role and importance of different arms or weapons, air support, supply and logistical systems, armor maintenance and repair capabilities, and how all this affected the way the battle was fought or its result?

- Does the book contain detailed tactical maps, e.g. divisional or corps sectors, day-by-day (I would guess yes, based on just the number of maps mentioned in the teaser)?
Just FYI, you could ask Chris in its forum at TDI, if you are already registered (they're not accepting new members). He's been active lately.
If not, I could ask him for you. Also interested in those points you made.

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pintere
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Re: New Kursk book - Kursk, The Battle of Prokhorovka

#34

Post by pintere » 16 Sep 2015, 15:52

Meyer wrote:
Michate wrote:I already preordered the book, but have two more questions as what to expect:

- Does the book contain detailed tactical/operational analysis (as opposed to mere description of the fighting), including, e.g., comparisons of force structures, unit organisation, battle orders, training, combat methods, command systems, communications, role and importance of different arms or weapons, air support, supply and logistical systems, armor maintenance and repair capabilities, and how all this affected the way the battle was fought or its result?

- Does the book contain detailed tactical maps, e.g. divisional or corps sectors, day-by-day (I would guess yes, based on just the number of maps mentioned in the teaser)?
Just FYI, you could ask Chris in its forum at TDI, if you are already registered (they're not accepting new members). He's been active lately.
If not, I could ask him for you. Also interested in those points you made.
If you find anything would you mind reposting them on this thread?

Meyer
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Re: New Kursk book - Kursk, The Battle of Prokhorovka

#35

Post by Meyer » 16 Sep 2015, 18:00

pintere wrote:
If you find anything would you mind reposting them on this thread?
Sure, Michate asked at TDI and got the answer. Lawrence's answers in bold:
Well, I did try to post directly to the Axis History forum, but was not able to log in. I sent an email to the administrators, but they have not responded.

quote:- Does the book contain detailed tactical/operational analysis (as opposed to mere description of the fighting)....

Yes, but not in depth on every subject you listed, and not always with a clear conclusion. In many cases we have made observations, and I leave the conclusions to the readers. In some cases, we provide the observations from people who were present, and leave the conclusions to the readers. I even included Col./Dr. Fyodor Sverdlov's rather caustic comments on Zhukov, even though they were probably not intended for publication.

But there is a clear combat performance difference between the German and Soviet forces, and we do address this. We also did an analytical comparison between the performance of the 48th Panzer Corps and the SS Panzer Corps.

On the other hand, the book is not an analysis of the difference between the German and Soviet armies, and this is not a prominent part of the book. It is a history of the battle. Still there is probably more analytical and statistical material in this book than in most military histories.


quote:- Does the book contain detailed tactical maps, e.g. divisional or corps sectors, day-by-day (I would guess yes, based on just the number of maps mentioned in the teaser)?

We ended up using their maps. So inserted into the book and scattered throughout the text are the maps done by the two Germans armies, the 48th Pz Corps, the daily maps for the SS Panzer Corps and Corps Raus. We also obtained the situation maps from many of the Soviet tank and mechanized corps. These are also liberally inserted into the text. Finally, we put in as fold-outs 24 1:50000 scale topo maps from 1942. So, if one wants to actually follow the narrative from village to hill to gully, the maps are there to do that.

Even then, there are a few gaps. There is a shortage of maps for the fighting in the III Panzer Corps are as we did not have good maps from the Germans and there were no Soviet tank corps in the area. There is also a shortage of maps that address combat below the division level, as simply, no one created such maps.

This is the link: http://www.dupuyinstitute.org/ubb/Forum ... 055-4.html

Thanks to Michate.

Michate
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Re: New Kursk book - Kursk, The Battle of Prokhorovka

#36

Post by Michate » 17 Sep 2015, 09:32

Oh, thank you for pointing me towards Dupuy forum.
I read most of the discussions there some years ago, but it seemed to have gone into hibernation state at some point.
I am glad to see Mr. Lawrence is active there again. Traffic will probbaly upswell much once the book is out.

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ViKinG
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Re: New Kursk book - Kursk, The Battle of Prokhorovka

#37

Post by ViKinG » 19 Sep 2015, 13:21

This book looks insane, I saw all your posts and figured, I'll check amazon and see what the fuss is about.. 1700 pages!!!! dear god! that's a dream come true! That is well worth the price of 250$ on there. So even though I in no way need a book on Kursk considering I'm pouring everything I have into 1941 combat operations, I feel I have no choice but to buy it right now and avoid it costing me 2341$ next year!! Anybody feel the same ?? haha

Luc

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pintere
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Re: New Kursk book - Kursk, The Battle of Prokhorovka

#38

Post by pintere » 19 Sep 2015, 16:22

ViKinG wrote:This book looks insane, I saw all your posts and figured, I'll check amazon and see what the fuss is about.. 1700 pages!!!! dear god! that's a dream come true! That is well worth the price of 250$ on there. So even though I in no way need a book on Kursk considering I'm pouring everything I have into 1941 combat operations, I feel I have no choice but to buy it right now and avoid it costing me 2341$ next year!! Anybody feel the same ?? haha

Luc
Yep. Can't resist 8-)

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ViKinG
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Re: New Kursk book - Kursk, The Battle of Prokhorovka

#39

Post by ViKinG » 20 Sep 2015, 07:15

Well I took my own advise and pre-ordered it, screw it! haha

Luc

Meyer
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Re: New Kursk book - Kursk, The Battle of Prokhorovka

#40

Post by Meyer » 22 Sep 2015, 08:00

From Aberdeen Bookstore webpage:
advance copy has arrived, shipment due in mid October
Image

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pintere
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Re: New Kursk book - Kursk, The Battle of Prokhorovka

#41

Post by pintere » 19 Oct 2015, 15:36

I made a meme of the book to help my brother see the light. Perhaps it will be a bit of a persuader to anyone sitting on the fence about it.

http://memecrunch.com/meme/A2OWL/top-10 ... kursk-book

Michate
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Re: New Kursk book - Kursk, The Battle of Prokhorovka

#42

Post by Michate » 20 Oct 2015, 12:11

Your argument no. 7 seems off, as Russia continues to open her war related archives during Putin's presidency. See eg. here:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 7#p1577025,
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 8&t=216277

or here:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 8&t=215741,
http://www.germandocsinrussia.org/de/no ... foderation

The historians from the MGFA (German military history research institute) also seem to have been able to use Russian military archives to a considerable degree. Please not that some part of Western WW2 related archives remain classified as well.

But good job otherwise. It is important to support such supreme efforts as that book.

mars
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Re: New Kursk book - Kursk, The Battle of Prokhorovka

#43

Post by mars » 20 Oct 2015, 16:34

Guys, this book is now available at http://www.aberdeenbookstore.com/

Dann Falk
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Re: New Kursk book - Kursk, The Battle of Prokhorovka

#44

Post by Dann Falk » 20 Oct 2015, 18:29

I just placed my order....All I can say is WoW!.....I need this book!

Meyer
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Re: New Kursk book - Kursk, The Battle of Prokhorovka

#45

Post by Meyer » 03 Nov 2015, 05:00

So, they are taking orders, but no news about when they will send the book. Anybody got it yet or heard something about the shipping date?

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