Lina Heydrich & Max Williams biography of Heydrich

[Max Williams]

I've read many mistakes and misconceptions in the posts above so I would be interested in sources.
Max

[Annelie]

Does anyone know what happened to the Children of Lina and Heydrich?

Did they have an normal life after the war and marry and live
an normal life?

Thankyou
Annelie

[helen]

I agree with Max History.

If you want to read the truth Misty, you couldnt do better than Max Williams biography of Heydrich - it doesnt deal with sensationalism and 'gossip' but real facts. It seems that Heydrich and his wife had a very loving relationship - which can be seen from their letters - but like most relationships it was not without its ups and downs. Instead of unfounded gossip - you will see - in print the letters from Heydrich and Lina. This is worth far more than wild supposition.

I think it is impossible to get reliable information regarding intimate details of a personal relationship in these days - let alone one which happened so many years ago. One only need look at the myths which surround Hitler and Eva - how can anyone distinguish a 'reliable' source of information? I am sure that Lina and Reinhard had a relationship like most people do - the truth only known to themselves and private to themselves. I should take everything 'sensational' with a pinch of salt - perhaps its best to deal only with the facts.

regards

Helen

[Helly Angel]

Hello Matt,

Lina Mathilde von Osten joined to the NSDAP in 1929 (NSDAP Number: 1.201.380) and participated in a rally where the Red Flag with the Swastika was arise in a building in Kiel first time.

When they were boyfriends, Lina gifted to Heydrich the book of "her God" (in her own words): "Mein Kampf" and she asked to Heydrich about the chapters of the book each night. He was a Nazi for her influenced in these years. Lina had more political level than Heydrich.

They married in december 26, 1931

She worked in the NSDAP Orstgruppe in Kiel and she was one of the girls who made repartitions of Nazi propaganda in the streets of the city. In next years she likes sing the "Horst Wessel Lied" in the streets.

The best friend of Lina was Karl von Eberstein the future SS General. They were members of the same Orstgruppen.




Lina Mathilda von Osten Heydrich

Best,

Reviving this topic .... Helly Angel, what's your source for this?

For Info about Lina and her work in the NSDAP in:

Brissaud, André, Histoire du Secret Service Nazi (French) I have the edition in Spanish.

For info about the relationship about Lina and Reinhard in:

Georges Paillard and Claude Rougerie, Reinhard Heydrich.

Best,

[Matt Gibbs]

Well, I agree. There's certainly some interesting books out there about Heydrich and I reckon no two authors could probably be able to agree on many thinga about him and his character.
For sure there is plenty to agree on but too many surmises and conjectures and make believe. He certainly was an enigma.

My main interest in him is the one thing that is almost unexplained. How he was able to go about everyday life as a husband and father and yet do the work that he did and instigate the work that was carried on by the security forces.

Trouble is with our 20:20 hindsight we can never in the PC world of today examine some of these things without a long hard look at ourselves - and thats something many of us are afraid to do.

Max - great books!

regards

Matt Gibbs

[Helly Angel]

Mr Max,

I have the idea that Reinhard Heydrich was a good husband and a lovely father. It is true?

TIA,

Helly

[Max Williams]

Mr Max,

I have the idea that Reinhard Heydrich was a good husband and a lovely father. It is true?

TIA,

Helly

Yes, all reliable evidence points to that.
Max

[amber]

Some infos about Lina's family

Quatation from Stern reportage about Heydrich.
If yomeone is interested and don't understand German I can translate it.

"Keiner weiß doch genau, was der Opa getan hat"

Lina Manninen, wie sie nach der Heirat mit einem finnischen Theaterdirektor hieß, tat alles, um ihren ersten Mann reinzuwaschen: "Er war nicht gegen Juden und hatte mit der Vernichtungskampagne nichts zu tun." Bis sie am 14. August 1985 starb, sprach Lina für die Familie, seither ihr Ältester, Heider, ein pensionierter Ingenieur im bayrischen Wörthsee. Er hält sich indes zu Fragen über den Vater für "nicht ausreichend kompetent". Heydrichs Tochter Marte Beyer, Inhaberin eines Modeladens in Burg auf Fehmarn, zum STERN: "Sie ahnen ja nicht, was es bedeutet, so einen Vater zu haben. Er verfolgte mich bis in den Schlaf. Aber ich weiß nichts." Ihr Sohn, Reinhard getauft, ergänzt: "Keiner weiß doch genau, was der Opa getan hat."

Peter Thomas Heydrich, Sohn von Heydrichs Bruder Heinz, der 1944 als Widerständler Selbstmord beging, schämte sich über solches Verhalten: "Seine Kinder haben nichts gefühlt und fühlen nichts." Nie haben sie auch nur eine Geste gegenüber den Opfern gemacht, weder zu Juden noch zu Kindern aus Lidice vielleicht aus Angst. Doch Juden haben, wie der israelische Historiker Tuwiah Friedman betont, "keine Rache an Heydrichs Kindern oder an seiner Gattin genommen, die ihm das vierte Kind zu einer Zeit schenkte, als tagtäglich jüdische Kinder mit ihren Müttern in die Gaskammern gejagt wurden".




Greetings
Alexandra

[Max Williams]

Some infos about Lina's family

Quatation from Stern reportage about Heydrich.
If yomeone is interested and don't understand German I can translate it.

"Keiner weiß doch genau, was der Opa getan hat"

Greetings
Alexandra

I think it would be better for most readers are English speaking.
Thanks.
Max

[Phil Nix]

I have a note regarding Lina Heydrich personal relationship. It was rumoured in Berlin that she had an affair with Dr Wilhelm Albert and this was the reason that Albert was omitted from the RHSA when it was formed in Sept 1939. Maybe only tabloid gossip
Philmil

[Max Williams]

I have a note regarding Lina Heydrich personal relationship. It was rumoured in Berlin that she had an affair with Dr Wilhelm Albert and this was the reason that Albert was omitted from the RHSA when it was formed in Sept 1939. Maybe only tabloid gossip
Philmil

Phil,
That's a new one on me. What is the source please?
Max

[Misty Dawn Bright]

I agree with Max History.

If you want to read the truth Misty, you couldnt do better than Max Williams biography of Heydrich - it doesnt deal with sensationalism and 'gossip' but real facts. It seems that Heydrich and his wife had a very loving relationship - which can be seen from their letters - but like most relationships it was not without its ups and downs. Instead of unfounded gossip - you will see - in print the letters from Heydrich and Lina. This is worth far more than wild supposition.

I think it is impossible to get reliable information regarding intimate details of a personal relationship in these days - let alone one which happened so many years ago. One only need look at the myths which surround Hitler and Eva - how can anyone distinguish a 'reliable' source of information? I am sure that Lina and Reinhard had a relationship like most people do - the truth only known to themselves and private to themselves. I should take everything 'sensational' with a pinch of salt - perhaps its best to deal only with the facts.

regards

Helen

Helen and everyone else on the forum that this concerns, including "Max History,"

I have read both volumes from Ulric of ENgland, and I must say that I am not impressed. I don't mean to burst anyone's bubble, but here's why:

1 - To start with, the spelling and grammar mistakes are atrocious! I don't mean to be picky, but if I see a work that is meant (or is supposed to be meant) for scholarly submission and publication, I expect the spelling and grammar to be impeccable. Considering how sloppy and haphazard it was in the U of E volumes, I have a hard time believing that this doesn't say something about the quality of the research. Max, please take note, especially since the two volumes in question are only available in hardcover. This is something you seriously need to fix.
2 - The Heydrich family refused to grant the author an interview. I have a hard time believing that this had to do solely with the desire to keep a low profile. After all, they talked to Stern Magazine, and German author Dederichs, who is working on a new bio (in German) of Heydrich, and Lina Heydrich even talked to Charles Wighton.
3 - Anytime Max History comes up with evidence from another source that is contradicted by Lina Heydrich's account, he sides with Lina Heydrich. Why? Does he have any other sources for some of the claims that she's made, other than her account, which can't be confirmed anyway? If you all would like me to elaborate, I gladly will in a future post. For now, I don't have the book at hand and my internet connection is shoddy. So I'll get back to you all in a couple of days.
4 - Even though he described his sources at the beginning of the book, half of those aren't even listed in the endnotes. The endnotes are the sparsest I've ever seen.
5 - He calls Lina Heydrich's account "an excellent historical work." It's not. It's not even meant to be scholarly. It's just a personal account.

In truth, I haven't run across any account of RH that is "unbiased." One just needs to be skilled at reading between the lines and filtering the bias out, not relying on one or two historical accounts and discounting any evidence solely because it conflicts with those accounts.

[Drew Maynard]

Max:

In regards to your work on the Heydrich enigma, I must applaud you on this work. I've read a number of shoddy, cobbled up and rumour laden works on Heydrich and by far, yours is neither. I've only seen the first part of the two and was stunned when I was lucky enough to take a look at it. If I'm the first forum member to say so, hats of to you sir. Well done work. Being the father of two, and mired in this hobby of reenactment, my monies are at times 'restricted', but I do look forward to purchasing both the volumes in the future, and ultimately, the fact that both volumes were published, hats off again.

I've been in the process of publishing a book for the past year and I can totally understand the ups and downs of publishing yourself, the fact that you have the backing of the Ulric of England publishing firm, makes you a lucky man. Heydrich's history, as well as most of those in the 'inner circle' of the 3rd Reich are clouded by conjecture, half-truths, lies and outright laughable rumours, and the fact that you have attempted to set the facts straight and publish them in a professional manner, speaks volumes.

Add to that the fact that your posts on the forum come level headed and at a professional level, thank you. Nothing worse than reading an informative post than to watch it disintegrate into b.s. sladerfests and name calling.


Misty:

Come now, to attack someone for 'atrocious' grammar mistakes is like counting someone's hobnails and upon finding one missing, declaring them 'unfit for service' Hope you checked the binding, print quality and looked for proper folio placement, kerning and leading at the same time!



The fact that the two volumes are hard cover is a good thing, not detrimental to a work like this. Possibly speaking for others as well as myself, excellent reference books are preferred in hard cover. Fix? Nah- let's not make it a paperback pulp novel.

That the Heydrich family refuted an interview, so what. Take into account the ages of those concerned, and the nature of the interviews, the family and (as I'm sure others here in the forum have discovered), that interviews don't just 'happen' and even the people with best intentions can get waved away. Doesn't mean that the author is of ill repute.

Don't refute what Lina's told Max, you can't stoop to conclude that interviews between the two are hearsay- maybe next time Max, you'll need to take a Public Notary to sign and attest to the interviews.

Historical and personal accounts over decades are difficult to transcribe or to assign points of view to. Unbiased? Crap, we're biased with 'do I take the umbrella with me' in the morning!

so let's place nice and keep the level of respect between us all here at a decent leve. no sense pulling each other into the mud.

Max: My best to you.
Misty: As well to you.

(my 15 cents)

Vinland

[Max Williams]

Under normal circumstances, I would not reply to comments such as these; after all, everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, the writer makes observations which are totally misguided and in some cases incorrect and therefore misleading.

I have read both volumes from Ulric of ENgland, and I must say that I am not impressed. I don't mean to burst anyone's bubble, but here's why:

1 - To start with, the spelling and grammar mistakes are atrocious! I don't mean to be picky, but if I see a work that is meant (or is supposed to be meant) for scholarly submission and publication, I expect the spelling and grammar to be impeccable. Considering how sloppy and haphazard it was in the U of E volumes, I have a hard time believing that this doesn't say something about the quality of the research. Max, please take note, especially since the two volumes in question are only available in hardcover. This is something you seriously need to fix.
2 - The Heydrich family refused to grant the author an interview. I have a hard time believing that this had to do solely with the desire to keep a low profile. After all, they talked to Stern Magazine, and German author Dederichs, who is working on a new bio (in German) of Heydrich, and Lina Heydrich even talked to Charles Wighton.
3 - Anytime Max History comes up with evidence from another source that is contradicted by Lina Heydrich's account, he sides with Lina Heydrich. Why? Does he have any other sources for some of the claims that she's made, other than her account, which can't be confirmed anyway? If you all would like me to elaborate, I gladly will in a future post. For now, I don't have the book at hand and my internet connection is shoddy. So I'll get back to you all in a couple of days.
4 - Even though he described his sources at the beginning of the book, half of those aren't even listed in the endnotes. The endnotes are the sparsest I've ever seen.
5 - He calls Lina Heydrich's account "an excellent historical work." It's not. It's not even meant to be scholarly. It's just a personal account.

In truth, I haven't run across any account of RH that is "unbiased." One just needs to be skilled at reading between the lines and filtering the bias out, not relying on one or two historical accounts and discounting any evidence solely because it conflicts with those accounts.

1. I agree with the comments concerning spelling and grammar. However, I believe that this only applies to the first smaller volume. This is a fault which lies with alterations made by the publisher without my agreement or knowledge. The mistakes are nearly all where the publisher altered large chunks of the text. The second, much larger volume, addresses the shortcomings of the first. Misty Dawn Bright reveals her lack of knowledge of the publication business in that alterations can be made without the author's agreement or knowledge. The author also has no control whatsoever over the final production, such as hard or soft covers! I do take exception to the remarks regarding the quality of the research based on spelling, etc.. Her simplistic reasoning indicates a rather thin argument and deserves no further comment.
2. The fact remains that the Heydrich family did not wish to communicate with me at the time. It is a reasonable supposition that the reasons were to maintain their privacy. Whether or not their stance has now changed on this matter remains to be seen, but to insinuate that the reasons given are a fabrication I find insulting and without substance. Lina Heydrich was the only member of the Heydrich family willing to speak out in defence of her late husband. She gave interviews freely to the media and researchers. It may have escaped Misty Dawn Bright's attention, but Lina Heydrich died in 1985 and therefore it would have been somewhat of a coup to have landed an interview with her when the research for my book began in 1992.
3. Lina's book is biased towards her late husband. That point is made quite clear in my book. However, her primary evidence is stronger than most other sources on Heydrich's private life, for obvious reasons.
4. There are no sources listed at the beginning of the book, only acknowledgements. Because someone helps an author does not mean that their input is used in the final version. Another indication of the lack of understanding of research and writing by Misty Dawn Bright.
5. Nowhere did I refer to Lina Heydrich's book as "an excellent historical work." Her use of inverted commas as a quote is incorrect. This is not a quote from the book and is therefore misleading. My actual phrase is (and I quote) "...Deschner's book offers much information gained from personal interviews with Heydrich's widow and various Heydrich associates; while Lina Heydrich's book offers personal detail about her late husband and her view of the National Socialist leadership. Both of these excellent works have been utilised for source material for this study."
I will finish by stating that Misty Dawn Bright admits that she "reads between the lines" when studying any historical biography. Surely this is dangerous and will lead the reader to come to conclusions about the subject material that are not necessarily the truth. Strange for a comment made by someone who is so stringent about sources listed!
I leave my books to the readers to make up their own minds and I apologise for replying to a negative personal review.
Max.

[Annelie]

Thankyou

Max, I was very glad to read your reply to Misty.

It clears a lot up.
One like myself must try and read with understanding how a book
and all it contains is compiled and
the time element and motives etc that goes into not only
reading but the book itself.. Makes for very
interesting reading.