Bodenfunkstelle Brummer
Bodenfunkstelle Brummer
Hi All
In the book "Die Geschichte der Luftnachrichtentruppe "
Band II , Teil I from K.O.Hoffmann on page 409 , there is
a drawing about a "Brummer" organisation its is something like Fu.G. 16
organisation, but the "Brummer" 200 W. had a bigger range of
200 km. at a height of 1000 m. The drawing is from Nord France ,
but maybe it is used in other areas too.
There is also a Regelbautype L 492 Unterstand für Bodenfunkstelle "Brummer"
were even Rudi Rolf doesn't know the drawing of this Regelbautype.
Are the 2 "Brummers" the same and were they used for Tagjagd ???
Who know this device or has fotos of it ???
Regards Jos
In the book "Die Geschichte der Luftnachrichtentruppe "
Band II , Teil I from K.O.Hoffmann on page 409 , there is
a drawing about a "Brummer" organisation its is something like Fu.G. 16
organisation, but the "Brummer" 200 W. had a bigger range of
200 km. at a height of 1000 m. The drawing is from Nord France ,
but maybe it is used in other areas too.
There is also a Regelbautype L 492 Unterstand für Bodenfunkstelle "Brummer"
were even Rudi Rolf doesn't know the drawing of this Regelbautype.
Are the 2 "Brummers" the same and were they used for Tagjagd ???
Who know this device or has fotos of it ???
Regards Jos
Re: Bodenfunkstelle Brummer
Sadly I can not afford the used copies of Hoffmann books on Ln-dienst, could anyone post a picture of the Brummer layout on page 409?
Re: Bodenfunkstelle Brummer
Hi Valtoro,
Here it is. There were a few Brummer stations in Norway (AFMZ Bergen and Gossen) and one has been identified at Lista. But they must have been in many other countries as well. The associated constructions, drawings and pictures remain THE Ln mystery. Please see attachment and link.
http://www.gyges.dk/luftwaffe_ln%20norway.htm
In Denmark we had a radio bunker we cannot explain at Ejer Bavnehøj, the highest hill in the country. We just have a post war drawing of the bunker no written German documentation. This is a logic Brummer candidate. Bur no proof.
bregds
SES
Here it is. There were a few Brummer stations in Norway (AFMZ Bergen and Gossen) and one has been identified at Lista. But they must have been in many other countries as well. The associated constructions, drawings and pictures remain THE Ln mystery. Please see attachment and link.
http://www.gyges.dk/luftwaffe_ln%20norway.htm
In Denmark we had a radio bunker we cannot explain at Ejer Bavnehøj, the highest hill in the country. We just have a post war drawing of the bunker no written German documentation. This is a logic Brummer candidate. Bur no proof.
bregds
SES
- Attachments
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- Ejer Bavnehøj (Small).jpg (59.42 KiB) Viewed 1201 times
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- Brummer Jafü2 (Small).jpg (57.14 KiB) Viewed 1201 times
Re: Bodenfunkstelle Brummer
Thank you SES for the map and the sketch.
Re: Bodenfunkstelle Brummer
Hi Valtoro,
My pleasure. Anything you can dig up about the system in Norway would be much appreciated. I think we are looking for steel lattice or pole masts, with a cruciform antenna on top.
bregds
SES
My pleasure. Anything you can dig up about the system in Norway would be much appreciated. I think we are looking for steel lattice or pole masts, with a cruciform antenna on top.
bregds
SES
- ChrisMAg2
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Re: Bodenfunkstelle Brummer
Hi jopaerya,jopaerya wrote:...
Are the 2 "Brummers" the same and were they used for Tagjagd ???
Who know this device or has fotos of it ???
...
this might be an addition to SES' input:
This is a quote from A.D.I. (K) Report No. 525/1944 - Control of Fighters by the "Y"-Procedure:
...
Brummer Relay Stations.
40. According to P/W, Brummer relay stations are placed
throughout German territory and are employed for relaying R/T
speech in cases where aircraft have flown beyond the normal
R/T range of the "Y" site.
41. The Brummer stations are connected to the Division H.Q. by
landline and are controlled by the Division; should a "Y"
plotting officer find that an aircraft under his control is
nearing the limit of R/T range, he will request the Division
H.Q., to connect with a Brummer station in the relevant area.
42. Whilst making this request, the "Y" plotting officer
states the frequency on which the "Y" station is operating,
and the Brummer will transmit at that frequency. According to
P/W, the R/T traffic on Brummer stations is usually confined
to directional and homing instructions, although "Y" control
can sometimes continue after the limit of R/T range of the "Y"
site has been reached.
...
End of quote.
And A.D.I. (K) Report No. 527B/1944 - Equipment of a "Y"-site, seems to explain the diagramm to be a Y-site
of a Heinrich II M or U Peiler typ:
...
"Heinrich II M" and "Heinrich II U" D/F Equipment.
27. Captured documents make mention of the Heinrich II M.
and II U; these versions were unknown to the present P/W, but
the II M is shown in a document, issued at Arnheim in May 1943
by Staaatsrat Dr. PLENDL, to utilise an aerial array with
three sets of quarter-wave dipoles and reflectors.
28. The II U, mentioned in another document from the same
source, and dated July 1943, is shown to be the forerunner of
the Heinrich III described above, and to embody the same
aerial array as the letter.
... End of quote.
So, to answer your question, Brummers were used in Tagjagd and Nachtjagd, if the Y-Verfahren was used. And the FuG 16B of the Y-site, corresponded to the airborne counterparts FuG 16Z, ZE and or ZY
Regards
Christian M. Aguilar
Christian M. Aguilar
Re: Bodenfunkstelle Brummer
Hi Chris,
Nice of you to contribute and describe the system.
What we are looking for is photos, Germen documentation and if possible actual sites. In some cases if you know exactly where to look the concrete is still there - and that is a passion of some of us
bregds
SES
Nice of you to contribute and describe the system.
What we are looking for is photos, Germen documentation and if possible actual sites. In some cases if you know exactly where to look the concrete is still there - and that is a passion of some of us
bregds
SES
Re: Bodenfunkstelle Brummer
The site for the Brummer station in Bergen is not far from the AFMZ Bergen, also in sight of the two Y-peiler.
Not much concrete at the site. Been two huts/barracks there, also some foundations for poles/masts.
regards
stril
Not much concrete at the site. Been two huts/barracks there, also some foundations for poles/masts.
regards
stril
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Re: Bodenfunkstelle Brummer
Hi Chris!
So a Brummer was just a relay station with a simple transmitter (or transceiver?) and a "normal" antenna
for radio contact to a aircraft which was out of range? Am I right?
Or did the Brummer used a kind of special equipment as at a Y-station?
Best wishes
Rolf
So a Brummer was just a relay station with a simple transmitter (or transceiver?) and a "normal" antenna
for radio contact to a aircraft which was out of range? Am I right?
Or did the Brummer used a kind of special equipment as at a Y-station?
Best wishes
Rolf
- ChrisMAg2
- Member
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Re: Bodenfunkstelle Brummer
Hi Rolf,
Brummer stations are the Y-station's connection to the superior Div. HQ. They used a (standard, unspecified) Funkverbindung and/ or Fernsprechverbindung (Telephon, cable based) for that.
Beside that they also provided directional and homing Y-service , also beyond the range of the Y-site. For that they needed a FuG 16B set. All together, more then just a simple transmitter/ receiver equipment. And that justifies a bunker of it's own.
Brummer stations are the Y-station's connection to the superior Div. HQ. They used a (standard, unspecified) Funkverbindung and/ or Fernsprechverbindung (Telephon, cable based) for that.
Beside that they also provided directional and homing Y-service , also beyond the range of the Y-site. For that they needed a FuG 16B set. All together, more then just a simple transmitter/ receiver equipment. And that justifies a bunker of it's own.
Regards
Christian M. Aguilar
Christian M. Aguilar
Re: Bodenfunkstelle Brummer
Hi,
The Brummer network was primarily established to enable radio communication beyond the range of the normal FuG 16 transmitters. It enabled the JD/Jafü to communicate with primarily day fighters. Please see diagram in my first post. It would for a number of reasons, however, be logical to locate Brummer systems in a Jägerleit Stellung equipped with Y-Linien. Hoffman, however, does not mention that, and there is no reference to Brummer in the German manual Y-Verfahren(Jagd). I am pretty sure that there were no Bummer in Y-Linien Stellungen in Denmark. They were scrutinized by the RAF and Danish authorities. So Rolf you are right.
bregds
SES
The Brummer network was primarily established to enable radio communication beyond the range of the normal FuG 16 transmitters. It enabled the JD/Jafü to communicate with primarily day fighters. Please see diagram in my first post. It would for a number of reasons, however, be logical to locate Brummer systems in a Jägerleit Stellung equipped with Y-Linien. Hoffman, however, does not mention that, and there is no reference to Brummer in the German manual Y-Verfahren(Jagd). I am pretty sure that there were no Bummer in Y-Linien Stellungen in Denmark. They were scrutinized by the RAF and Danish authorities. So Rolf you are right.
bregds
SES
Re: Bodenfunkstelle Brummer
Hi strill,stril wrote:The site for the Brummer station in Bergen is not far from the AFMZ Bergen, also in sight of the two Y-peiler.
Not much concrete at the site. Been two huts/barracks there, also some foundations for poles/masts.
regards
stril
Thanks a lot. Do you have a map of the location and any further details.
bregds
SES
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Re: Bodenfunkstelle Brummer
Hi to all!
Here is the reason for my question:
Location: Stollberg, north of Bredstedt
Time: (at least) mid 42 to mid 44
Participants: 1 Unteroffizier, 2 Obergefreite
On Stollberg was a fake windmill, which was a wodden tower with a antenna
on top, a barrack with some radio-equipment and spare-parts, a garage and
a guard-hut (all wodden).
I was able to find one of the Obergefreiten a few years ago. He told me,
all he had to do was to switch on a transmitter when required. All day
long, they were taking care of a telephone. When it rang, the other side
introduced himself as "Jagdführer Deutsche Bucht" and they got the order
to switch on the transmitter. The two Obergefreiten were before on a course
at Luftnachrichtenschule Pinneberg to fix the transmitter if necessary.
The transmitter was in a rack and all parts had green and red lights. When
s.th. was broken, the red light of this part was on and they had to change
this plug-in module. This was their job for two years and nobody told them
what they were doing there exactly ("knowledge only if necessary!"). They
didn't even know, that there was a Y-Stellung "around the corner". Everything
was secret.
Sometimes he put on a headphone and he was able to follow some ground-to-
air-communication and sometimes a bit of Luftlage.
Brummer?
BTW Sorry, Jos! This has nothing to do with your L492...
Best wishes
Rolf
Here is the reason for my question:
Location: Stollberg, north of Bredstedt
Time: (at least) mid 42 to mid 44
Participants: 1 Unteroffizier, 2 Obergefreite
On Stollberg was a fake windmill, which was a wodden tower with a antenna
on top, a barrack with some radio-equipment and spare-parts, a garage and
a guard-hut (all wodden).
I was able to find one of the Obergefreiten a few years ago. He told me,
all he had to do was to switch on a transmitter when required. All day
long, they were taking care of a telephone. When it rang, the other side
introduced himself as "Jagdführer Deutsche Bucht" and they got the order
to switch on the transmitter. The two Obergefreiten were before on a course
at Luftnachrichtenschule Pinneberg to fix the transmitter if necessary.
The transmitter was in a rack and all parts had green and red lights. When
s.th. was broken, the red light of this part was on and they had to change
this plug-in module. This was their job for two years and nobody told them
what they were doing there exactly ("knowledge only if necessary!"). They
didn't even know, that there was a Y-Stellung "around the corner". Everything
was secret.
Sometimes he put on a headphone and he was able to follow some ground-to-
air-communication and sometimes a bit of Luftlage.
Brummer?
BTW Sorry, Jos! This has nothing to do with your L492...
Best wishes
Rolf
Re: Bodenfunkstelle Brummer
Hi Rolf,
Certainly a possibility. I had not thought of connecting your mill with a Brummer, but I should have.
B4egds
SES
Certainly a possibility. I had not thought of connecting your mill with a Brummer, but I should have.
B4egds
SES
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Re: Bodenfunkstelle Brummer
Hi SES!
Neither I do!
Best wishes
Rolf
Neither I do!
Best wishes
Rolf