what is this?

[Mudnor]

It has many characteristics of a hj dagger except... it doesn't rely look like one...? It is old enough to be real and it has many signs that indicate that it is not a fake. No other markings than what you see.

[von thoma]

Welcome to Axis Forum !

I haven't good news.
In a real Hitler Youth knife,the correct inscription must be "Blut und Ehre", "Meine Ehre Heisst Treue" is the SS motto.
Sorry ,Fantasy knife.
Regards !

[Mudnor]

Well.. you are right and you are wrong... A hj knife often has "blood and honor" etched on the blade, but sometimes there is nothing (later ones i think). And the motto on my knife is as you say ss... Nothing new there
I know that it's not a hj knife, and I know that it's not a replica... so... what is it..? That is the question... as they sey

[John G.]

Mudnor,
Sorry to say....but:
This is a fantasy knife, it was not made durning the 3rd Reich period, and while it is "well done", it is NOT ORIGINAL. The use of the SS Motto was tightly controlled by the SS and would never appear on an unauthorized blade like this....
Sorry....I wish it was something special....but it isn't.
John G.

[history1]

John, shouldn´t the caption "stand" on the knifes edge? Like in this US - samples: http://www.milcompass.com/kabar.htm
I´m not familiar with this matter.

Regards,
Roman

[Mudnor]

I am not questioning the age... It is old enough. If it is, as some say, a fantasy knife, then they started very early producing fantasy knives... My question would then be ; why not make one that look genuine. Early fake ones was also poorly made, mine is not. And if it is a fake why have they not tried to make it look real? Some things just don't add up Of cause it could be a piece of crap, but then it is period crap

[John G.]

Mudnor,
I know it's not what you want to hear.....but this was NEVER produced durning the period. This could easily be from the 1950s or 1960s (or much newer!).... many of the finest quality reproductions were made back then, when many original parts and fittings (and Craftsman) were still available....many high quality items also coming out of England durning this period.

This is a fantasy item from the get-go (start).....if not, it would have been produced in sufficient quanity to be well recognized.... I might have accepted it as a "special presentation"....but the SS Motto "KILLS IT"!!!!!! (That would never have been allowed!)

Sorry.....but I can't change reality. Try posting on the WAF or the Dagger Forum.....if you want more people to tell you the same thing.
John G.

[history1]

@John G.: I repeat my question, don´t know why it has been overlooked:

John, shouldn´t the caption "stand" on the knifes edge? Like in this US - samples: http://www.milcompass.com/kabar.htm
I´m not familiar with this matter.

[John G.]

History1,
Yes, the "motto" is placed "upside down"/reversed....depending on you're point of view.....but the whole thing is a fairly well done, but very "amature" attempt, to make a postwar knife into something "SS".....
John G.

[rlimike]

Fantasy piece for sure.

[scruffy]

there was a youth branch of the SS,..
i once meet an old timer who claimed to once be a member ,..

i wonder if they may have used a similar knife to the HJ ?
there is not a lot of information about them ,..
i wonder if there is a small chance ,..that just maybe,..... some form of an SS youth knife really did exist ,...
if even just a prototype form ?

[John G.]

There was NO YOUTH BRANCH of the SS.....and this is a complete fantasy knife.....
John G.

[Frederick Prinz]

There was NO YOUTH BRANCH of the SS.....and this is a complete fantasy knife.....
John G.

What John said............ A fantasy knife, with my guess being 1960's to 1970's (or possibly a little later, not that it makes a difference) when a lot of fakers (and collectors) were clueless as to how the SS, HJ, etc. were set up and what was and wasn't permitted. With one good example of something else that guys spent good money for being the "SS" swords with RZM markings. Nice to look at on a wall - but completely valueless as period historical artifacts. FP

[Mudnor]

http://www.raremilitaria.com/Qstore/Qst ... 1118779188

Not the same, but if real then your argument wold be invalid??

[John G.]

Mundor,
I'll stand behind what I said about your "SS/HJ Knife"....that it's a reproduction from the 1950s/60s....however, while looking for something else, I did find your knife listed in "Collecting the Edged Weapons of the third Reich Vol. 2" (by Tom Johnson) on pg. 294. Under "Rare and Unusual" Catagory....say's it's a "Rare early HJ Knife bearing the SS Motto"....
However....it's still a fantasy piece assembled & engraved postwar, IMO. There are many errors and fakes in many referance books....including "his"....

I don't believe the other HJ knife (your link) with the "SS Motto" is real, either! (Original knife but "newly engraved")....

Check with Johnson....if he believes in it, he sould be willing to pay "big bucks".....(I wouldn't....however!)
John G.