"Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter"

Discussions on WW2 and pre-WW2 related movies, games, military art and other fiction.
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wm
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Re: "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter"

#16

Post by wm » 28 Apr 2013, 20:00

Thinking about it, it is a work of fiction so they didn't have to cling to reality obsessively, the artistic license was used there.
But why Schwarzengrund was single out is a mystery. It was a pure German, out of the way village. There was no railway there then and never will be.

Some say this scene is a jab at the venerable Polish production "Czterej Pancerni i Pies" and its glorious tank number 102.
102.jpg
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history1
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Re: "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter"

#17

Post by history1 » 28 Apr 2013, 20:51

WM, fact is that this city is located in Poland nowadays, right? It doesn´t make sense to mention where it was located at the time. Or to use a german name which was used only in NS-aera, you know I mean Schwarzengrund.
I guess no one would call Cracow an austrian city though some time ago it was a city in Austria. You sure don´t mind calling Cracow a polish city or am I wrong?

You also wrote "There were no Polish partisan units inside Germany at that time,". I wonder hence I know that there was a lot of polish resistance around the camp. Just read "Ludzie dobrej woli (English: People of Good Will: http://bit.ly/10lIO4m)" by Henryk Świebocki. And isn´t it correct that escapees from the camp joined Partisan units outside the camp (don´t remember which volume of Zeszyty Oświęcimski it mentions, "too" many books in my bookshelf).

Ref. the distance you are right it´s rather road distance but "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter" is a movie not a documentary so who you want to blame?


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wm
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Re: "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter"

#18

Post by wm » 28 Apr 2013, 22:41

Maybe I should have said inside the pre-war Germany borders, but even the resistance around Auschwitz wasn't doing hard sabotage missions, they were primary working in intelligence. The terrain was unsuitable for partisan warfare. The population was only partially supportive as many German and nationally indifferent people lived there. The local Gestapo was doing good work in destroying the underground resistance.
The cultivated forests around Auschwitz weren't much useful too.

A daylight attack on a train would be suicidal, especially around Auschwitz because of the dense rail and road networks there. A night attack would be slightly less suicidal but still an impossibility especially in 1942.

So lets see, the village and the territory around it were German and deep inside Germany proper. Kraków was always Polish - Koppitz never.
There were no railway line there, and it wasn't on the road to Auschwitz anyway. The Jews could escape from the train but had nowhere to go, the attack on the train was impossible. No to mention that the story portrayed in the film never happened.
Lots of avoidable inconsistencies - but fortunately there is always an easy solution to every problem, the producers should build a railway line to Kopice now, and the people living there today will gladly forgive the misuse of their village's name. :)
No to mention the people and their children who lived there then...

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Re: "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter"

#19

Post by BillHermann » 30 Apr 2013, 09:27

I find it interesting that so many feel the need to nitpick about trivial details, its obvious that its a fictional account that is being told with a level of believability. Even Band of Brothers had major inconsistencies and its story was following the stories of actual people.

Today we are fortunate with cg and production budgets that give us a more in depth level of realism that just wasn't important in the 1960s, 70s and 1980s.

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Re: "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter"

#20

Post by kenify » 01 May 2013, 11:27

I just finished watching it found it a very good quality production, minor detail glitches such as medals etc, certain holes in the plot for dramatic licence, but a great start for a nation still questioning itself.

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Re: "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter"

#21

Post by htk » 03 May 2013, 22:16

[Moved from "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter" white wash history]

Hi frankfurter

U quoted "This film is about a group of 5 random young people who where thrown into the war. The majority of Germans were not in the SS nor were they killers, most were just thrown into a maelstrom. One criticism I have about a random group of five Germans: none of the 5 was an antisemite, not even slightly. A bit odd I´d say after 8 years of indoctrinantion."

I have also seen the serie (and the documentaries going with it); the young nurse ratted out the "jewish hiwi dokter to the Gestapo. This russian dokter later saved her life, but then she (the russian dokter) shot a russian nurse (depicting the what happened to the russians who helped (also those who where forced) the germans.

The nurse was not kindly treated by her collegues in the series. In turn this young nurse committed sabotage by extending the stay of soldiers in the hospital by worsening their wounds.

all in all not a bad series; it did not hide what happened (like neck shooting the commisar), but trying to give some back ground info ... i think they are trying to tell that the truth is not black and white

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Re: "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter"

#22

Post by Motch » 04 Jun 2013, 15:47

Anyone know where I can get part 3?
Was able to download parts 1 and 2 from YouTube before they were removed> I have no problem purchasing it, but the only option is from Amazon.de and not sure it will play on my Mac. Know it won't play on my dvd.

Really want to watch the last part. Very good so far. Supposedly a company has set up rights to broadcast it here in the states.. but when, I don't know.

Willing to make a donation to charity under someones name if they can help.
Thanks
Motch

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Re: "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter"

#23

Post by B Hellqvist » 05 Jun 2013, 19:11

The first part aired in Sweden yesterday. Very good so far!

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Re: "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter"

#24

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 19 Jun 2013, 23:40

Watch the historical debate tomorrow in ZDF and you will understand all points of criticism. I have just watched it in TVP. They said that tomorrow (on 20 June 2013) it will be broadcasted in German ZDF television.

This debate has just been broadcasted in Polish TVP television (just after the 3rd episode of "Unsere...").

I have watched both all three episodes of "Unsere..." (they were broadcasted by Polish TVP television on Monday, yesterday and today) and the debate that followed.

BTW - the "Polish episode" of this series, was not the only topic of this debate and not the only field of criticism.

In this debate took part: professor Shevah Weiss, several Polish and German historians, one veteran of the Home Army, and some other people. Actually I think that they should also show this debate in Anglophone media (since this TV series was already translated to English).

=====================================

Among aspects of this movie, which were described as historical falsification, was the fact that a Jew (Victor) lived peacefully in Germany until 1941 and was not persecuted at all until that time, he (and his family as well) did not expect anything bad taking place in near future, their Jewish shop was opened and working until 1941, and Victor and his family continued to consider themselves as Germans - or even German patriots.

This is in stark contrast to historical reality, when persecutions of Jews in Germany started long before the war, and many of them were escaping abroad, experiencing antisemitism and anticipating future tragedy. By 1941 (de facto already in the 1930s) Jews were excluded from German society - they were not considered Germans or even citizens - all Jews were deprived of citizenship (see the Nürnberger Gesetze from 1935).

All these historical facts are not showed in the movie. Also enthusiasm for Hitler of large part of the German society (especially young people - who are naturally very susceptible to influence and propaganda of radical ideologies) could not be seen anywhere in the movie.

I didn't notice this aspect initially while watching, because I started to watch the 1st episode not from the start, but from the middle (I only watched entire 2nd and entire 3rd episodes). I didn't know, that the movie starts in 1941 (when I started to watch the 1st episode, it was Winter of 1941).

Watch the debate in ZDF tomorrow, and you will see how they discuss this, and other things.
There are words which carry the presage of defeat. Defence is such a word. What is the result of an even victorious defence? The next attempt of imposing it to that weaker, defender. The attacker, despite temporary setback, feels the master of situation.

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Re: "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter"

#25

Post by poldas » 02 Sep 2013, 05:53

Long thought of this triptych;
Overall - It is good to watch.
We also Polish thread there.
And the problem is.
The director or screenwriter made ​​a mistake.
Where is he?
The guerrillas have badges with the inscription "AK"
For what?
Emblems are using insurgents, not partisans.
We falsehood.

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Re: "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter"

#26

Post by seaburn » 15 Nov 2013, 21:06

It's being shown in Ireland on Sunday night but its titled 'generation war' I'm crossing my fingers that it's not been dubbed into English 8O

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Re: "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter"

#27

Post by seaburn » 04 Dec 2013, 22:56

Well series over and by the comments on our local forum, it was received very well and enjoyed by most...biggest grumbles were subtitle errors, and too many 'coincidental' meeting of the characters. Produced some good discussion on the war and its legacy. So glad we got it before the UK...makes a change ! :D

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Re: "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter"

#28

Post by Cerdic » 05 Dec 2013, 18:21

Also enthusiasm for Hitler of large part of the German society (especially young people - who are naturally very susceptible to influence and propaganda of radical ideologies) could not be seen anywhere in the movie.
I haven't watched the show yet, but its quite often that I see this theme in fictional or dramatised German works about WW2. They tend to be apply political correctness to past times, so everyone is either a fanatical NS, or defeatist and fatalist and is secretly against the NS government.

Also, I think it would be better to use real-life stories.

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Re: "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter"

#29

Post by Ponury » 07 Dec 2013, 12:19

Polish response to the German mushy series, as the title theme.

"The days of honour"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jxz2-pAJdSE

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Re: "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter"

#30

Post by seaburn » 07 Dec 2013, 13:27

Ponury wrote:Polish response to the German mushy series, as the title theme.

"The days of honour"
Thanks for posting, looks really interesting, hopefully our TV station will air that too. Poland's valiant struggle for liberation from invaders is well known here but not often seen from a Polish perspective. I know UM/UV created a storm in Poland due to its depiction of the Anti-Semitism of the partisans. But having grown up in an English speaking country, we only ever got the American or British versions of the war for decades so programmes that feature other countries perspective is welcomed even if they prove to be contentious to some. With the age of the internet, its easier for people to challenge things they feel are portrayed inaccurately and be able to voice their objections to a world wide audience, thus adding another angle to the story.

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