"Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter"
Re: "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter"
Hi Seaburn, thanks for the heads up. I guess I can provide myself with the information I was looking for, it seems this was released 3 weeks ago for American consumption, and I am quite happy to learn of this. I missed it being retitled "Generation War", and here is a link for those U.S. members who have not seen this yet. I find the price very reasonable as well. ($27.98)
http://www.amazon.com/Generation-War-Vo ... on+war+dvd
http://www.amazon.com/Generation-War-Vo ... on+war+dvd
Re: "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter"
I watched the second episode with English subtitles.
Parts where, e.g, one soldier says he is part of a "Ghost legion" because he "makes the Jews disappear" seemed quite silly. The acting and sets were excellent though.
Parts where, e.g, one soldier says he is part of a "Ghost legion" because he "makes the Jews disappear" seemed quite silly. The acting and sets were excellent though.
Re: "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter"
I have just finished watching this miniseries and I have mixed feelings about it. The visual effects and settings were stunning, and the battle scenes were especially well carried out. I was slightly bothered by the fact that apart from two or three soldiers throughout the entire series; everyone seemed to die immediately when hit. But other than that, the whole layout was great and the actors were fantastic. It was also refreshing to watch a WWII story were almost every character spoke its native language.
Wilhelm and Friedhelm were naturally the most interesting characters, although I was a little disappointed that they quickly turned unpatriotic. Charlotte offered some needed relief from the front-line scenes. Greta’s character could have been very insightful to civil life in the Reich (her involvement with the Gestapo officer was interesting), but not enough was done there. Which leaves me one character to deal with - Victor. It is my sincere feeling that this character was an unnecessary addition, and, frankly, for me it was the biggest downer in this series. He was uninteresting and I felt he was pushed into the role of the “Jewish victim” as a faint reference to the holocaust. I got this feeling the moment he came strolling down a street in Berlin of 1941 on a bicycle (banned since 1936) and greeted everyone with a loud "Shalom". It was painfully obvious he was there to appease Jewish viewers. The Jewish nurse would have been enough reference, so to speak, in her short appearance, had she not magically returned from the dead as a Soviet commander. Instead, after he emerges on a train from Sachsenhausen, Victor highjacks the viewer onto the enemy side, where we are forced to watch the demonized Polish partisans. And this Lilija character, in her komandir-reincarnation, also ruins what could have been a powerful scene of the fate of many German women who fell into Russian hands in 1945. The series should have ended with only Wilhelm alive. That would have spared a lot of kitsch and had a far greater impact.
Edit: Reflecting on it again, I feel there was a distinct lack of palaver among the soldiers. It felt a little unnatural.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=9122
Wilhelm and Friedhelm were naturally the most interesting characters, although I was a little disappointed that they quickly turned unpatriotic. Charlotte offered some needed relief from the front-line scenes. Greta’s character could have been very insightful to civil life in the Reich (her involvement with the Gestapo officer was interesting), but not enough was done there. Which leaves me one character to deal with - Victor. It is my sincere feeling that this character was an unnecessary addition, and, frankly, for me it was the biggest downer in this series. He was uninteresting and I felt he was pushed into the role of the “Jewish victim” as a faint reference to the holocaust. I got this feeling the moment he came strolling down a street in Berlin of 1941 on a bicycle (banned since 1936) and greeted everyone with a loud "Shalom". It was painfully obvious he was there to appease Jewish viewers. The Jewish nurse would have been enough reference, so to speak, in her short appearance, had she not magically returned from the dead as a Soviet commander. Instead, after he emerges on a train from Sachsenhausen, Victor highjacks the viewer onto the enemy side, where we are forced to watch the demonized Polish partisans. And this Lilija character, in her komandir-reincarnation, also ruins what could have been a powerful scene of the fate of many German women who fell into Russian hands in 1945. The series should have ended with only Wilhelm alive. That would have spared a lot of kitsch and had a far greater impact.
Edit: Reflecting on it again, I feel there was a distinct lack of palaver among the soldiers. It felt a little unnatural.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=9122
Re: "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter"
Victor is spurious, he should have got his own movie. His story of a rich German Jew and his adventures is from the fringes of WW2 history anyway.
The Ghost legions, the bicycle, demonized Polish partisans, instant deaths is the price paid for trying to squeeze the entire WW2, too many characters, and too many locations into such a short miniseries. There is no time for historical accuracy - and for slow dying.
The results are a good entertainment, and a large number of shortcuts/inaccuracies/mistakes. Like Dorn - he's a plain cloth detective at the beginning, then becomes a high ranking Gestapo officer, and then an influential entertainment promoter.
Lots of explanatory dialogue especially at Kursk, where a low ranking officer accurately explains the campaign and its implications on a strategic level. And many improbable chance encounters/reunions.
And it's a story of a group of well educated, sophisticated, liberal, relatively rich people - most of the Germans (and other nationalities) weren't like them. Nothing wrong with that, but it should be "Tiny Minority of Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter".
The Ghost legions, the bicycle, demonized Polish partisans, instant deaths is the price paid for trying to squeeze the entire WW2, too many characters, and too many locations into such a short miniseries. There is no time for historical accuracy - and for slow dying.
The results are a good entertainment, and a large number of shortcuts/inaccuracies/mistakes. Like Dorn - he's a plain cloth detective at the beginning, then becomes a high ranking Gestapo officer, and then an influential entertainment promoter.
Lots of explanatory dialogue especially at Kursk, where a low ranking officer accurately explains the campaign and its implications on a strategic level. And many improbable chance encounters/reunions.
And it's a story of a group of well educated, sophisticated, liberal, relatively rich people - most of the Germans (and other nationalities) weren't like them. Nothing wrong with that, but it should be "Tiny Minority of Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter".
Re: "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter"
Not just Jewish viewers - I imagine other people aswell who might get offended at the Germans making a docu-drama which focuses on the ordeals and suffering of Germans instead of Jews.Which leaves me one character to deal with - Victor. It is my sincere feeling that this character was an unnecessary addition, and, frankly, for me it was the biggest downer in this series. He was uninteresting and I felt he was pushed into the role of the “Jewish victim” as a faint reference to the holocaust. I got this feeling the moment he came strolling down a street in Berlin of 1941 on a bicycle (banned since 1936) and greeted everyone with a loud "Shalom". It was painfully obvious he was there to appease Jewish viewers.
IMO it would have been a more realistic and representative series if the only references to Jews were passing and not focused on. i.e what the vast majority of German's experiences of the persecution and genocide of Jews were like.
I would have preferred to see scenes of bombing raids, flight/expulsions, experiences as POWs (e.g Gulag) or Red Army rapes.
While the series cannot go on forever, I'd also like a reminder that for 90% of Germans it did not begin in 1941 and did not end in 1945. Even if just short scenes, I'd like to see a look at the characters lives before 1941 and how the living ones continued their lives after 1945. Allied occupation, reconstruction, economic miracle in the 50s, etc.
Re: "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter"
Agree, that the addition of that character was unnecessary and artificial. After all many US/British docu-dramas, which focus e.g. on the ordeals and sufferings of the long range bomber crews instead of the targeted German civilians, manage just well without any additional reference figures - not to even mention the soviet/Russian ones, which do not even hint on the ordeals and sufferings of the victims of the soviets before, during or after the "holy" "Great Patriotic War".Cerdic wrote:Not just Jewish viewers - I imagine other people aswell who might get offended at the Germans making a docu-drama which focuses on the ordeals and suffering of Germans instead of Jews.Which leaves me one character to deal with - Victor. It is my sincere feeling that this character was an unnecessary addition, and, frankly, for me it was the biggest downer in this series. He was uninteresting and I felt he was pushed into the role of the “Jewish victim” as a faint reference to the holocaust. I got this feeling the moment he came strolling down a street in Berlin of 1941 on a bicycle (banned since 1936) and greeted everyone with a loud "Shalom". It was painfully obvious he was there to appease Jewish viewers.
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Re: "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter"
I found it interesting they gave the dates of birth and death of each of these characters, and thought for a minute that it might have been loosely based on actual persons, then realized that this was as likely as Friedhelm and Victor squaring off in a Polish forest against one another with the evil SS commander standing alongside giving directions.
A well done and very gripping series, nonetheless. Had these absurd chance encounters/reunions been omitted from the series it would have rightly secured its legacy as a powerful testament to WWII from a German perspective, right alongside a film such as Das Boot or Sophie Scholl, but in the end it more resembles the legions of films and television series that value entertainment over any attempts at genuine historical accuracy, mainly because of these oft times absurd encounters amongst characters, and not just the 5 principal players, either, but must include the Ukrainian Jewish doctor/nurse turned Russian commander, as well as the SS commander who tormented both Friedhelm and Wilhelm. An entertaining and moving series it was, however.
A well done and very gripping series, nonetheless. Had these absurd chance encounters/reunions been omitted from the series it would have rightly secured its legacy as a powerful testament to WWII from a German perspective, right alongside a film such as Das Boot or Sophie Scholl, but in the end it more resembles the legions of films and television series that value entertainment over any attempts at genuine historical accuracy, mainly because of these oft times absurd encounters amongst characters, and not just the 5 principal players, either, but must include the Ukrainian Jewish doctor/nurse turned Russian commander, as well as the SS commander who tormented both Friedhelm and Wilhelm. An entertaining and moving series it was, however.
Re: "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter"
I saw the series today and I Wonder if anyone on this forum has a good interpretation of the scene where Friedhelm encounters the wolf and then decides to commit suicide because of inner desperation or total disillusion?
I know the N.S. were very fond of wolves and it is a totem animal to many original people, but maybe someone is able to deliver the ''rigtht'' explanation.
As for the character Greta, she got a misrable end and I am tempted to believe she was judged as a total opportunist and nazi-collaborator by the authors of the script. An awful end to her story.
I know the N.S. were very fond of wolves and it is a totem animal to many original people, but maybe someone is able to deliver the ''rigtht'' explanation.
As for the character Greta, she got a misrable end and I am tempted to believe she was judged as a total opportunist and nazi-collaborator by the authors of the script. An awful end to her story.
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Re: "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter"
The wolf and Frieldhelm are the same. He basically takes a nap and is confronted by his animal self on waking. The wolf snarls and sniffs but does not harm him cause they are the same.
His sacrifice occurs much later in time where he either has to surrender and pay for his crimes, or reintegrate himself into a civilian way of life. That part of Friedhelm died a long time ago and he cannot be the person he was before. He is already dead his sacrifice just takes his physical being.
His sacrifice occurs much later in time where he either has to surrender and pay for his crimes, or reintegrate himself into a civilian way of life. That part of Friedhelm died a long time ago and he cannot be the person he was before. He is already dead his sacrifice just takes his physical being.