Germans on Imperial Germany

[Nicole S.]

Bavaria was a souverain nation UNDER the Habsburg emperors, NOT under the Hohenzollern Kaisers.

Not our problem that Bavarian monarchs were simply unable to handle with money

Horrido!

Nicole

[jpkoch]

The exodus of Germans of all types to the US is perhaps one illustration of a general unhappiness of various subgroups with the Prussian Reich. My own great grandfather was a Catholic Schwab. He and three of his brothers emigrated to Illinois in 1878. They left thier 9 siblings and family as well as thier life in the tiny village of Grosselfingen. German Catholics, whether they were Lusatians, Schwabs, Franconians, or Rheinlanders emigrated in large numbers to the US during the Kulturkampf years.

There were also large numbers of non-Catholic Prussians, Saxons, Hanoverians, Brunswickian and Westphalians who left the Vaterland. However, Germany during the years 1870-1914 was a very dynamic society; there were periods of boom/busts, land speculation -especially in Berlin, and great social unrest. Large numbers of rural Silesians, Saxons, and Prussians filled Berlin's factories and urban nieghborhoods. German farmers of all types were squeezed by soaring labor costs and cheap grain imports. As firms such as AG Thyssen Siemens, and Krupps rapidly expanded operations, great fortunes were won and lost; labor laws had to be passed to protect the workers and outlaw child labor. The old class system was under great stress, and the poorerJunker land holders felt their interests in Berlin were not being protected. Crime both rural and urban was a growing problem in the border towns, as foreign farm laborers abused thier guest workers status. Many of the same problems people today worries about plagued the Germans during the Kaiserzeit.

Probably the best indicator of all of these social/political issues was Berlin itself. In 1805, it was a sleepy capital on the edge of Europe; in 1905 it was a Weltstadt possessing huge industries, world class museums, grand gardens, hotels, boulevards, cafes, colleges, as well as world class slums with overcrowded housing (Rote Wedding), world class air pollution, and large scale social strife. The Communists, Junkers, workers, bourgeoisie, rich and poor Jews, bureaucrats, Catholics, Protestants, and expats all lived in this dynamic capital. All that was best as well as all that was the worst in German society during the Kaiserzeit could be found in Berlin. All over Germany ancient customs and traditions were under assault as the old order was fast giving way to the kind of creative destruction Schumpeter predicted visit all capitalistic societies.

[Mad Zeppelin]

The exodus of Germans was mainly caused by economic reasons, although some political and religious reasons also were present, but in minority. The choice was: Stay at home and starve - or seek your fortune overseas. Only in the 1890ies did the German economy really take grip. In 1905, Germany was running out of labour force and had to import labour.
You can see this when looking at the emmigrants that passed through the German ports. German numbers were high all through the 19th century but went down towards its end. Now the main nationalities emmigrating came from eastern Europe.

[thinkinghill]

I thought the Third Reich was Hitler's vision of a third great historic empire after that of Alexander the Great and Rome. So there was no such thing as a "Second" Reich or first for that matter in Germany. Am I right?

[nondescript handle]

[...] Am I right?

No.
1st Reich: Sacrum Romanum Imperium Nationis Germanicæ 962–1806
2nd Reich: German Empire 1871-1918

And that phrase in its modern meaning was coined by Arthur Moeller van den Bruck, not Hitler.

[joerookery]

that phrase in its modern meaning was coined by Arthur Moeller van den Bruck

And after WWI! Janet and I have a new book coming out this year, which Peter has been given a copy to review, and it covers much of this. A very fun topic!

[cortodanzigese]

Well in present day Pomerania, which is polish-speaking and belonging to Poland, the Era of Imperial Germany is viewed rather positive. It is perceived as peaceful period of region's history when crime rate was low, administration was efficient and competent, employment was high and society was modernizing in a rapid way. Contrary to Third Reich, Imperial Germany can be viewed only in positive ways - it was a state that, like todays China, made a great advance in all areas of human development, and if Pomerania is ahead of Poland's dirty interior - it is only thanks to Imperial Germany!

I can't imagine that there are people in Germany that despise Kaiserreich! Before 1870 Germans were nothing in Europe - a band of insignificant and undeveloped people that for 500 years had to endure foreign invasions and watch as other nations divide the planet and make colonial wealth. And Germans were mere observers like Zulu tribesmen or indian fakirs. Bismarck fixed 500 years of german history and directed Germans onto the paths of unprecedented glory.

The fact that Germans have opinion around the world, as solid and competent people, and that german products have such exceptional aura, is only becouse of Imperial Germany, becouse it was responsible for rapid advance in science and technology (especially when compared to earlier period of nothing), industry and arts that made Germans such opinion in the world that endures today.

After the last war the Allies did everything to demoralise the german population and led her away from ancestral roots. The were afraid of what Germans can do, when they are united and when they are proud of their nationality (surely Donitz and Rommel made the West tremble). And so, we have today, completely alien establishment and alien educational system that indocrinate new generations of Germans to distance themselves from their germaneness. The present political order in Germany is of soviet-american origin, and it is natural, that earlier period when Germans were dangerous competitors to planet's masters and independent players has to be discredited.

The Imperial Germany was the greatest moment in the 2000 year old history of the Germans, but unfortunately the leadership failed. And this could be a german century...

[MacX]

I can't imagine that there are people in Germany that despise Kaiserreich! Before 1870 Germans were nothing in Europe - a band of insignificant and undeveloped people that for 500 years had to endure foreign invasions and watch as other nations divide the planet and make colonial wealth

I disagree... Germans had not been "nothing" before 1871. They only didn't have a modern centralized nation-state like their favorite rivals, the French and the British
Politically, Prussia and Austria have been great powers in Europe. But the true strength of the Germans before 1871 were their "Dichter und Denker" (=poets and thinkers).

And I don't see what's so great about having colonies... neither did Bismarck.

[murx]

Most Germans learn the usual school history of the "Centuries of German Aggression". However although Bismarck might have been helped a little bit nobody forces Napoleon III to declare war against the Northern German Federation because the Count of Siogmaringen, a 20.000 soul small town in the South had sent an application for the Spanish throne.
If Napoleon at this point already feeled surrounded by hostile Germans I perfectly understand the nervousness of the German military high command being surrounded by hostile Russia and France having a treaty to draw the Reich into a two front war.
Napoleoin might not have thought that the South, traditionally hostile to the Prussians, would jopin them in this war. However they did under two coinditions (Source: personal communication having lived in the South): to be paid and not to have to wear the Pickelhaube (the Prussian spiked helmet, a hate symbol for Bavarians).
When the nReich was founded in 1870 the Prussian King became Kaiser and chief of the German army ---- except ofthe Bavarian Army where the Bavarian King kept that right.
Wilhelm II. in 1914 therefore declared Germany to be at war - except the territory of the Kingdom of Bavaria.
When the Weimar governemnt tried to change that regulation Hiotrlerm had written a sharp comment in his "Völkischer Beobachter". The Minister of Defence in Berlin then ordered the Bavarian Army to arrest Hitler. e army however refiused to do so.

[murx]

geld reich.pdf

Sorry for some odd reasons I cannot correct or edit the posting above which was sent without myself pushing the button.
As an anecdotre I have attached two scans of a 10 Million and a 200 Billion Mark bill.