After the Fall

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Balrog
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After the Fall

#1

Post by Balrog » 21 Jun 2014, 16:33

"My strongest experience was the War and the destruction of my fatherland, the only one I ever had, the Dual Monarchy of Austria-Hungary." Joseph Roth

I've been trying to find history books which talk about the human diaspora left scattered across the wreckage of the former Austro-Hungarian Empire. Specially, a history book which discusses the feelings expressed in the quote at the beginning of this post. I would like to know if this feeling was common throughout the old empire. Did any Poles or Croats feel they had lost their fatherland; or were they happy to be part of the new ethnic nation states which were carved out of the empire?

Also, if anyone could post some its of information regarding this topic on the thread, I would appreciate it.

I read a rather strange and convoluted article in Foreign Policy Magazine talking about the wave of nostalgia that appears to be sweeping the old Hapsburg lands. Is that true? (Anyone in the old Hapsburg Empire willing to chime in on this?)

Could anyone recommend any history books on this topic? (Are there any out there?)

gyuresz
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Re: After the Fall

#2

Post by gyuresz » 21 Jun 2014, 21:52

I think the quote has a lot to do with the particular ethnic and cultural identity of its author. Joseph Roth was Jewish, and he surely shared this particular sentiments with many other Jewish citizens of the dismembered Monarchy. In contrast to other nationalities like the Magyars, Croats and Czechs who were busy with establishing their national states on the ruins of the Monarchy, Jews could not have any territoral claims for any particular parts of the old Monarchy for creating their own homeland based on ethnicity. Many of them, being fully assimilated to modern society, did not have these aspirations either. The old supranational state form of the Monarchy suited them better, and they bemoaned the loss of their "only fatherland".

Another Viennese Jew, the psychoanalist Sigmund Freund expresses similar sentiments in a memorandum from November 11, 1918:

"Austria-Hungary is no more. I do not want to live anywhere else. For me immigration is out of question. I shall live on with the torso and imagine that it is the whole."

György


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Balrog
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Re: After the Fall

#3

Post by Balrog » 22 Jun 2014, 04:53

gyuresz wrote:I think the quote has a lot to do with the particular ethnic and cultural identity of its author. Joseph Roth was Jewish, and he surely shared this particular sentiments with many other Jewish citizens of the dismembered Monarchy. In contrast to other nationalities like the Magyars, Croats and Czechs who were busy with establishing their national states on the ruins of the Monarchy, Jews could not have any territoral claims for any particular parts of the old Monarchy for creating their own homeland based on ethnicity. Many of them, being fully assimilated to modern society, did not have these aspirations either. The old supranational state form of the Monarchy suited them better, and they bemoaned the loss of their "only fatherland".

Another Viennese Jew, the psychoanalist Sigmund Freund expresses similar sentiments in a memorandum from November 11, 1918:

"Austria-Hungary is no more. I do not want to live anywhere else. For me immigration is out of question. I shall live on with the torso and imagine that it is the whole."

György
I agree completely. I didn't want to write about that; I wanted to see if others felt the same way regarding Jewish subjects of the Empire without suggesting that first.

Even though Hapsburg Vienna had growing voices of anti-Semitism in it, overall, Jewish culture flourished under the Hapsburgs. I once read that large portion of the reserve officer corps of the Imperial and Royal armed forces were Jews. (I believe many of them were doctors; please correct if I'm wrong.)

What about the Ukrainians? They seem to have gotten the worst of it: ending up under the Bolsheviks...

Did officers in the newly established national armies continue to wear their Hapsburg military decorations? I've seen photos of Baltic officers who had continued to wear their Czarist decorations earned during their Imperial service in Russia on their uniforms right into the 1920s.

gyuresz
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Re: After the Fall

#4

Post by gyuresz » 22 Jun 2014, 13:32

Indeed, Jews of the Monarchy enjoyed full emancipation since 1867, Jewish life flourished, and the Emperor Franz Joseph was very supportive towards his Jewish subjects. He even was nicknamed as "Judenkaiser" by anti-Semites.

The percentage of Jewish reserve officers in the k.u.k. army was indeed high, compared to the general percentage of Jews in the Monarchy which was around 4 percent. Shortly before the war the number of Jewish reserve officers were around 17 percent, and in some areas even higher: 30 percent in the Train, 20 percent in the fortress artillery. The number of Jewish army doctors was also 20 percent. The high percentage mirrors the large Jewish educated stratum in the Monarchy: 15 percent of the students of Austrian universities were Jewish, while fully 23 percent of those who had completed secondary school in Hungary were Jews. In the military esablishment Jews were able to reach quite high ranks, there were several Jewish generals, one of them, Baron Sámuel Hazai even becoming Hungary's minister of defense between 1910 and 1917. In comparison, in the ethnically more homogeneous Germany with a more hostile attitude towards Jews there were virtually no Jewish officers before 1914.

A very good recent publication about this subject in German language, with contributions from more then forty scholars is the following:

Weltuntergang: Jüdisches Leben und Sterben im Ersten Weltkrieg. Vienna: Styria. 2014

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Re: After the Fall

#5

Post by Balrog » 22 Jun 2014, 13:43

I think most of the peoples of the Serb dominated Kingdom of Yugoslavia would have fared better under a Hapsburg confederation. Franz Ferdinand was said to favor such a move, which is why Serbia's Black Hand terrorist gang murdered him along with his wife in Sarajevo in 1914.

In the end, virtually every state that came out of the Austro-Hungarian Empire was some form of dictatorship, with the exception of Czechoslovakia-the only stable democracy to emerge in Eastern Europe. (It's been ages since I've written the word Czechoslovakia. :) )

Old Prohaska
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Re: After the Fall

#6

Post by Old Prohaska » 25 Jun 2014, 00:42

I think reading Roth's novels ("The Radetzky March," "The Emperor's Tomb") and those of Stefan Zweig ("The Man Without Qualities" and his autobiography, "The World of Yesterday") would provide valuable insights.

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Re: After the Fall

#7

Post by Balrog » 26 Jun 2014, 14:26

Old Prohaska wrote:I think reading Roth's novels ("The Radetzky March," "The Emperor's Tomb") and those of Stefan Zweig ("The Man Without Qualities" and his autobiography, "The World of Yesterday") would provide valuable insights.

Old Prohaska
I've taken your advice. I've also ordered a potentially interesting book called Joseph Roth's March into History: From the Early Novels to Radetzkymarsch and Die Kapuzinergruft (Studies in German Literature Linguistics and Culture).

Image

Could anyone recommend any other books?

Any more information would be appreciated.

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