From UK to Warsaw in Nov. 1918, was it possible?

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bazza1
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From UK to Warsaw in Nov. 1918, was it possible?

#1

Post by bazza1 » 20 Jan 2008, 16:55

Hope this is the right place to pose this wartime question.

I am researching the life of an aristrocratic Polish man living in the southern England before and during the 1914-18 war. He was a man of wealth and resources and was multi-lingual. At the end of October 1918, he made the brave (or maybe crazy) decision to take his car across the channel into France and drive to Warsaw in time to hear the independence speech by Pilsudski on 11th November. He was determined to be there as his father had long campaigned for the return of Polish independence (after 124 years). He travelled with a friend of senior rank in the RFC, who may have lent some authority to his journey.

My records simply do not show what route he took (or could have taken). Some archive material suggest he drove south through France to the Swiss border. From there, it is suggested that he managed to cross in to Italy early in November 1918. I am aware the Austria-Hungary armistice was signed on 4th November. After this date, do you think it would have been possible for him then to drive through Austria, into Polish Galacia and then head north to Warsaw? Would the roads have been passable? Would the military have allowed this man through the borders (he was an American pasport holder).

All I know is that I have photos of his departure in late October 1918 and another photo (with the same car) in Warsaw on 11th November 1918. He then returned to Krakow, which was where some of his relatives still lived, before returning back to the UK after Christmas.

Any guesses how it might have been possible! He was driving a large motor that would have used much petrol, where could he have got enough?

If anyone has got any suggestions, it would be much appreciated as my paper has ground to a halt!

Best wishes
Russ

Borys
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#2

Post by Borys » 22 Jan 2008, 14:46

Ahoj!
My gut feeling is "yes, possible".
He could bribe/bluster his way through. Waving a pistol or red flag could also had been handy in certain cases.
Borys


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Auseklis
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#3

Post by Auseklis » 22 Jan 2008, 15:11

Borys wrote:Ahoj!
My gut feeling is "yes, possible".
Waving a (...) red flag could also had been handy in certain cases.
Borys
Or maybe even better a red-cross flag...

I agree! With enough hard cash (US$ or Brit.Pound) absolutly possible.

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phylo_roadking
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#4

Post by phylo_roadking » 22 Jan 2008, 16:14

Was Amercia neutral with respect to Austro-Hungary???

Dave Bender
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How it might have been possible!

#5

Post by Dave Bender » 23 Jan 2008, 14:40

Most of Europe east of the Rhine was in chaos from Fall 1918 into the early 1920s. Coups organized by local warlords / national patriots (please select favorite title) were a common occurance. Without proper national governments with full control over their borders it was possible to travel anywhere. However it was somewhat risky.

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Auseklis
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#6

Post by Auseklis » 23 Jan 2008, 15:22

Btw.: I see no reason why he should have made the difficult way through the Ukranian Repulic. Galacia was not polish until late november (starting the polish rule with a large progrom, killing about 1000 jews...). IMHO it would have proved difficult to get fuel in Western-Ukraine in these days.
I would have tried to bribe my way through the young Czechoslovakian Republic.

Borys
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#7

Post by Borys » 23 Jan 2008, 16:04

Ahoj!
Auseklis wrote:Btw.: I see no reason why he should have made the difficult way through the Ukranian Repulic. Galacia was not polish until late november (starting the polish rule with a large progrom, killing about 1000 jews...). IMHO it would have proved difficult to get fuel in Western-Ukraine in these days.
I would have tried to bribe my way through the young Czechoslovakian Republic.
Maybe he went through GALICIA (with an I in the middle - Galacia, and correctly - Galatia, was a Roman province in Asia Minor) because it was in the way? If you draw a line from North Italy to Warsaw, it passes through Galicia. I agree that the eastern portion of Galicia is NOT on the way.
Gee weez, a 1000 Jews murdered by Poles in Galicia in 1918?
How ghastly!
And up to this day I haven't heard about it from the Elder Brethen?
Borys

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Auseklis
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#8

Post by Auseklis » 23 Jan 2008, 18:53

... was a typo, be shure I know the difference between Galatia and Galitia :)

With no other data at hand we can only guess the route. I would have tried the following:

Venice to Vienne to Bratislava to Ostrava to Krakow.

OK I admit that route is leading along the inside the former Austo-Galitian border for some klicks. But I would guess this area was already occupied by the polish at this time. Or not?

Borys
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#9

Post by Borys » 23 Jan 2008, 21:38

Ahoj!
The road from Vienna to Kraków passes through Teschen (Cieszyn) . The last 100-150km would be through Galicia. The rest through other lands of the disintegrating Dual Monarchy. No "Polish" control of anything pre November 10th/11th, although most of the Habsburg administation in Galicia was through Poles.
Poland was resurrected on November 11th, although a Polish Council was in power in Teschen from the 10th.

Borys

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Lach
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#10

Post by Lach » 24 Jan 2008, 13:00

In fact, the military borders (especially in 1918) weren't close for civillians at all. There are some facts of civillian's travellings across the front borders. E.g., the future Polish President Wladyslaw Raczkiewicz had a journey in March 1918 from Russian Minsk to German Warsaw and back. I don't know the kind of document he possessed, but I think your aristocratic Polish could ride in October-November 1918 anyway he wanted. I wonder why he chosen Sweiz instead of the shortcut across Germany's territory? It would be one border anyway... Maybe that was because Austrian part of Poland gain independance earlier than German?

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#11

Post by Mad Zeppelin » 25 Jan 2008, 10:59

He could have travelled through Germany. Germany was not in war with Poland. Any Polish citizen coming from Switzerland could have passed through Germany without problems. There was some confusion about the Posen-Province, which the Germans still regarded a part of Germany, but for somebody going to Warsaw there would have been no other restrictions than those imposed by revolution and the returning troops.

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