Swiss Army and the Western Front
- Graham Clayton
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Swiss Army and the Western Front
Fellow forum members,
One of the "standard" comments about the trench warfare on the Western Front is that there was a line of trenches that stretched from the Belgian coast all the way down to the Swiss border.
Was this literally true at the Swiss end of the Front. Did trenches literally go up to the Swiss border. Was the Swiss army put on alert just in case either the French or Germans tried to outflank the trenches by moving through Switzerland?
One of the "standard" comments about the trench warfare on the Western Front is that there was a line of trenches that stretched from the Belgian coast all the way down to the Swiss border.
Was this literally true at the Swiss end of the Front. Did trenches literally go up to the Swiss border. Was the Swiss army put on alert just in case either the French or Germans tried to outflank the trenches by moving through Switzerland?
"Air superiority is a condition for all operations, at sea, in land, and in the air." - Air Marshal Arthur Tedder.
- Ironmachine
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Re: Swiss Army and the Western Front
I think you will find an answer to your questions here:
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark? ... D=11741954
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark? ... D=11841622
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark? ... D=12239539
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark? ... D=16217196
Specially interesting is the following quote from the last link:
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark? ... D=11741954
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark? ... D=11841622
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark? ... D=12239539
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark? ... D=16217196
Specially interesting is the following quote from the last link:
I'm very grateful to Herr Oswald Schwitter, who has allowed me to look at several maps, both French and German, showing the disposition of troops and defences at the southern end of the Front. They absolutely confirm that the line settled on the River Largue as shown here. There were some strongpoints further south, but the trenches ended where indicated. That means that the French line must have simply stopped at the frontier, a few yards west of the Largue, while the German carried on beyond the neck of land called the Largzipfel as a precaution against a French attack through Swiss territory. As discussed earlier, the Swiss feared that either side might attempt it and therefore built a series of watchtowers and observation posts.
The New York Times carried stories about a rumoured German plan to pass through Switzerland, by which time the US was in the War, and the tone is highly anti-Hun. I've now discovered that there was a very detailed French plan for an invasion of Germany through Switzerland from the west, but it was obviously never carried out.
Re: Swiss Army and the Western Front
Couple of photos:
http://www.firstworldwar.com/photos/gra ... iss_01.jpg Swiss trenches.
http://www.greatwardifferent.com/Great_ ... -%20Cover% Swiss soldiers on manouvers.
http://www.greatwardifferent.com/Great_ ... -%20Pages% the Swiss army on wintertime mountain manouvers.
http://www.worldwaronecolorphotos.com/h ... _h_15.html Border with Switzerland. French and Swiss Servicemen. Village of Beurneresin or Berunevesin. (Switzerland June 19th, 1917).
http://www.worldwaronecolorphotos.com/h ... _h_16.html Border with Switzerland. Servicemen -Swiss - behind the wire netting marking borderline. Village of Pfetterhouse. (Haut-Rhin. France. June 19th, 1917).
http://www.worldwaronecolorphotos.com/h ... 3_h_4.html Border of Switzerland. French and Swiss Servicemen separated by the wire st the border. Village of Pletterhouse. (Haut-Rhin. France. June 19th, 1917).
http://www.firstworldwar.com/photos/gra ... iss_01.jpg Swiss trenches.
http://www.greatwardifferent.com/Great_ ... -%20Cover% Swiss soldiers on manouvers.
http://www.greatwardifferent.com/Great_ ... -%20Pages% the Swiss army on wintertime mountain manouvers.
http://www.worldwaronecolorphotos.com/h ... _h_15.html Border with Switzerland. French and Swiss Servicemen. Village of Beurneresin or Berunevesin. (Switzerland June 19th, 1917).
http://www.worldwaronecolorphotos.com/h ... _h_16.html Border with Switzerland. Servicemen -Swiss - behind the wire netting marking borderline. Village of Pfetterhouse. (Haut-Rhin. France. June 19th, 1917).
http://www.worldwaronecolorphotos.com/h ... 3_h_4.html Border of Switzerland. French and Swiss Servicemen separated by the wire st the border. Village of Pletterhouse. (Haut-Rhin. France. June 19th, 1917).
- Graham Clayton
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Re: Swiss Army and the Western Front
Landsturm,
The picture on the top right of the clipping from the "War Illustrated" shows a German trench going right up to the Swiss border (notice Swiss flag):
http://www.greatwardifferent.com/Great_ ... ain_03.htm
The picture on the top right of the clipping from the "War Illustrated" shows a German trench going right up to the Swiss border (notice Swiss flag):
http://www.greatwardifferent.com/Great_ ... ain_03.htm
"Air superiority is a condition for all operations, at sea, in land, and in the air." - Air Marshal Arthur Tedder.
Re: Swiss Army and the Western Front
Yes, and there are even a few unit histories published by the units documenting that period of activity.Graham Clayton wrote:Fellow forum members,
Was the Swiss army put on alert just in case either the French or Germans tried to outflank the trenches by moving through Switzerland?
This might be an example of one on abebooks.com; or it's just a collection of maps and photos by members of the unit:
Füsilier-Kompagnie I,53 : Kriegs-Mobilmachung 1914-1918 , Photographien von Wachtm. I,53 Seiler, Arnold , Karten von Gefreiter I,53 Gass, Gottfried.
Häring, Josef:
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Re: Swiss Army and the Western Front
Hi Graham,
As an aside, a little known fact - the front on the Swiss border was the only part of western Germany to be in Allied hands for almost the entire war. It was the only gain retained from the initial French offensives in 1914.
Cheers,
Sid.
As an aside, a little known fact - the front on the Swiss border was the only part of western Germany to be in Allied hands for almost the entire war. It was the only gain retained from the initial French offensives in 1914.
Cheers,
Sid.
Re: Swiss Army and the Western Front
Yes, of course. The army was mobilised partially or entirely during the different phases of WWI.Graham Clayton wrote: Was the Swiss army put on alert just in case either the French or Germans tried to outflank the trenches by moving through Switzerland?
Some details:
http://www.schweizer-festungen.ch/1914-18_ww1.htm
Re: Swiss Army and the Western Front
Hello, there. I'm responsible for the stuff on Landships about the Swiss frontier (with massive help from Oswald Schwitter and Thomas Buechler).
I asked Herr Schwitter about the "German trench under Swiss territory", and he tells me that it isn't. I though it was a bit of an odd arrangement. It seems that this is a photo taken from the Swiss side of the border, showing a Swiss trench. The flag on the high ground is for the benefit of people on the other side of it. He has other photos of the same site from different angles.
There is plenty of info about Swiss uniforms, reenactors, etc at this excellent site: http://www.rost-und-gruenspan.ch/
It includes TV footage of the commemoration of the Armistice, with infantry and cavalry uniforms.
I asked Herr Schwitter about the "German trench under Swiss territory", and he tells me that it isn't. I though it was a bit of an odd arrangement. It seems that this is a photo taken from the Swiss side of the border, showing a Swiss trench. The flag on the high ground is for the benefit of people on the other side of it. He has other photos of the same site from different angles.
There is plenty of info about Swiss uniforms, reenactors, etc at this excellent site: http://www.rost-und-gruenspan.ch/
It includes TV footage of the commemoration of the Armistice, with infantry and cavalry uniforms.
Re: Swiss Army and the Western Front
Landsturm,
The picture on the top right of the clipping from the "War Illustrated" shows a German trench going right up to the Swiss border (notice Swiss flag):
http://www.greatwardifferent.com/Great_ ... ain_03.htm
Thanks for correction.
Re: Swiss Army and the Western Front
Here's one depicting German and Swiss border guards at Basle, Switzerland:
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Army was mobilised partially
A sensible precaution once they learned about French Plan H.
http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... n%26sa%3DN
http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... n%26sa%3DN
- Terry Duncan
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Translation
Dave,
The translation is certainly not reliable in this area;
In cooperation with the central army should then be up to the attack line Sursee - train - Rapperswil - Uznach made to immediately right towards Bregenz - Arlberg - Churchill continued to be.
The original is;
In Kooperation mit der Zentral Armee sollte dann der Angriff bis zu der Linie Sursee – Zug – Rapperswil – Uznach erfolgen, um alsbald rechtsseitig in Richtung Bregenz – Arlberg – Chur fortgesetzt zu werden.
My reading of the original was;
In co-operation with that central army should take place then the attack up to the line Sursee - Rapperswil - Uznach, in order immediately turning to the right toward Bregenz - Arlberg - Chur continuous.
Nothing about Churchill (even if he was fond of strange schemes he was unlikely to have had much to do with this), but other than this my German isnt really up to saying how accurate the translation is in other areas. Not sure if you can translate if better, or anyone else here can do it? I have found a few auto translations to be a bit strange in the past, although the general idea can be guessed.
I dont think either side were likley to really move through Switzerland for a few reasons, for purely practical reasons not moral ones. At first the French did not need to widen the front due to a narower front favouring them until the Germans had to send troops to the east, then when France did have the manower, influencing the US was too important, and then later after the mutinies the front was better kept as narrow as possible again. I would say the greatest danger for the Swiss would have been in 1919 when the US army had built up strength and were ready for action to break the German lines if the Germans had not attacked in March 1918 but stood on the defensive that year. The main plan for 1919 is relatively well known but this could be a possible alternative at that time.
The translation is certainly not reliable in this area;
In cooperation with the central army should then be up to the attack line Sursee - train - Rapperswil - Uznach made to immediately right towards Bregenz - Arlberg - Churchill continued to be.
The original is;
In Kooperation mit der Zentral Armee sollte dann der Angriff bis zu der Linie Sursee – Zug – Rapperswil – Uznach erfolgen, um alsbald rechtsseitig in Richtung Bregenz – Arlberg – Chur fortgesetzt zu werden.
My reading of the original was;
In co-operation with that central army should take place then the attack up to the line Sursee - Rapperswil - Uznach, in order immediately turning to the right toward Bregenz - Arlberg - Chur continuous.
Nothing about Churchill (even if he was fond of strange schemes he was unlikely to have had much to do with this), but other than this my German isnt really up to saying how accurate the translation is in other areas. Not sure if you can translate if better, or anyone else here can do it? I have found a few auto translations to be a bit strange in the past, although the general idea can be guessed.
I dont think either side were likley to really move through Switzerland for a few reasons, for purely practical reasons not moral ones. At first the French did not need to widen the front due to a narower front favouring them until the Germans had to send troops to the east, then when France did have the manower, influencing the US was too important, and then later after the mutinies the front was better kept as narrow as possible again. I would say the greatest danger for the Swiss would have been in 1919 when the US army had built up strength and were ready for action to break the German lines if the Germans had not attacked in March 1918 but stood on the defensive that year. The main plan for 1919 is relatively well known but this could be a possible alternative at that time.
Re: Swiss Army and the Western Front
The translation is ok so far.
BTW: Chur is the capital of a canton (state) called Graubünden (Grisons).
(Churchill spent his holidays as a young man in Davos before WWI ( in the house of my grandrandmother). Davos is also in the Grisons.)
BTW: Chur is the capital of a canton (state) called Graubünden (Grisons).
(Churchill spent his holidays as a young man in Davos before WWI ( in the house of my grandrandmother). Davos is also in the Grisons.)
- Graham Clayton
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Re: Swiss Army and the Western Front
Here is an interesting incident from the front near the Swiss border, taken from the book "Meeting in No Man's Land - Christmas 1914 and Fraternization in the Great War", by Marc Ferro, Malcolm Brown, Remy Cazals and Olaf Mueller (Constable and Robinson, London, 2007)
"The postal censors report for the 2nd regiment of African chasseurs on the 15th of March, 1917 states:
'These cavalrymen hold the trenches on the extreme right of the front, right up against the Swiss frontier, as shown in a photograph that was taken and sent to the General Staff. This particular situation gave rise to a curious incident: a Swiss miltary band had come to the meeting point of the three frontiers. The Germans and French came out of their trenches to listen to the concert.'" (page 131)
"The postal censors report for the 2nd regiment of African chasseurs on the 15th of March, 1917 states:
'These cavalrymen hold the trenches on the extreme right of the front, right up against the Swiss frontier, as shown in a photograph that was taken and sent to the General Staff. This particular situation gave rise to a curious incident: a Swiss miltary band had come to the meeting point of the three frontiers. The Germans and French came out of their trenches to listen to the concert.'" (page 131)
"Air superiority is a condition for all operations, at sea, in land, and in the air." - Air Marshal Arthur Tedder.
Re: Swiss Army and the Western Front
From drakegoodman,flickr
http://www.flickr.com/people/drakegoodman/
http://www.flickr.com/people/drakegoodman/
German and Swiss border guards pose for a photograph shortly after Christmas 1914. Although neutral, at the commencement of hostilities between the Central Powers and the Allies, Switzerland mobilised her military forces under the command of General Ulrich Wille, a decidedly pro-Kaiser officer. It was Willie, who in 1915, actually proposed Switzerland enter the war on the side of the Central Powers.