Empires Of The Great War

[TalkingZero]

Um okay. The German expansion up to the Great war and the view of them.

[Kelvin]

After the unification of Germany, there were no any German expansion before 1890.

The main core of Bismarck 's policy was to keep what Prussia gain since 1871. But under the pressure of military, Bismarck gave in their demand to force France to cede Alsace-Lorraine and demanded 5 billion francs as indemnity, thus made France as her potential enemy, ( Remark : Bismarck 's modest demand on Austria in 1866 paved the way for formaton of Dual alliance). So Bismarck 's another goal of her diplmacy was to isolate France. He wanted a preventive war in 1875 and dropped this under the objection of Russia and Great Britain.
In light of this problem, Bismarck formed an alliance with Russia and Austria and dispute over Tunis also pushed Italy to become ally of Germany in 1882. Bismarck also made some colonial expansion in East Africa in 1888. But the motives behind this colonial expansion was also domestic consideration. Given the influence of Princess Victoria on liberal ideology, wife of new German emperor Frederick III, Bismarck wanted to use colonial expansion to provoke conflict with England in order to prevent Frederick from receiving more liberal influence from his English wife.

After Willheim II came to power and the departure of Bismarck, Germany began to adopt aggressive expansion policy. Despite the fact that Wilheim II wanted to form alliance with England, he inept diplomacy only made England go away from any potential alliance. Kruger Telegram and German supply of arms to Boer also provoked English bad feeling toward Germany.
At the start of 20th century, both France and Russia was on bad terms with England. The formed even had two antiBritish military conventions if war broke between them in 1900 and 1901. In light of German threat, both Britain and France agreed to settle their colonial disputes over some colonies like fisheries of Newfoundland, Gambia and Egypt in 1904. Then Russia also settled her disputes with England over Afghanistan, Tibet, Persia, and China in 1907. French diplmacy also guranteed Italian neutrality in future Franco German war in 1902 and also settled their disputes over Morocco and Tripoli in 1900.
Japan, as an ally of Great Britain, also settled her disputes with Russia over Manchuria in 1910 and traditional ally of Austria and Germany since 1883, also promised to keep neutral for any war between Triple alliance and Franco-Russian alliance. Serbian army was strengthened with French arms and loan. Montenegrin army was becoming strong with Russian military assistance ( Montenegrin king was the best friends of Tsar Nicholos II).

By 1914, German became more isolated and almost no friends. She only had Austria- Hungary as her only friends while another camp includes England, France , Russia, Serbia, Montenegro, Japan. Romania and Italy were neutralized for German war effort.

Neither Germany nor Austria Hungary had any method to break this encirclement. Both of them began to adopt more dangerous policy : Bosinian annextion of 1908 initiated by Austria and supported by Germany. Two Morocoo Crisis in 1905 and 1911. The emergence of Serbia and Montengro in two Balkan Wars also made Austria more anixous to fight a preventive war against Serbia and Montengro. Conrad won Hotzendorf, Chief of General staff of k.u.k Army had formed Minimal Group Balkan ( 3 x army corps) for that job.

For Germany, the action of Entente Powers caused much more anxiety to German war planner. Miliary talks were carried out between Britain and France which involved the dispatch of BEF to France and redeployment of navies of both countries. French 1913 three years army act further affected German military and Russian almost recovered from Russo-Japanese war and began her huge army expansion : Great Programme until 1917 further worried German. By 1913, Russian had 27 army corps in Europe. 9 army corps were deployed near German border ( 5 in Warsaw MD and 4 in Vilnius MD) and 5 near Austria border ( Kiev MD) and two more for reinforcment from Odessa MD. St Peterburg and Moscow MD provided 4 and 5 army corps for further reinforcement respectively and another two army corps for general reserve in Kazan MD. You can see German was under extremely heavy pressure from both the East and West. And she did know that she no longer depended on Italian offensive on the Rhine if war broke out. Romanian was also unreliable. German also relied upon on her own and her only ally : Austria Hungary for this war.

[Dave Bender]

The borders of Deutsches Reich didn't change between 1871 and 1914.

[Terry Duncan]

The borders of Deutsches Reich didn't change between 1871 and 1914.

Yes that is correct.

Perhaps the poster was thinking of all the lands Germany wanted to annex after her long desired war was started?

One of the single most important factors to many in Germany was the Russian Great Program, enacted shortly before the war it placed Germany in a position where she would be outnumbered by the Russian standing army alone by 1917 and could not hope to fight a successful war. It did not have any direct impact on the politicians in the July Crisis as such, but it was very much a concern of the military men. This is yet another reason Moltke felt war was better now than later, as in 1914 he thought Germany still retained some hope of winning.

[TalkingZero]

If i'm correct, land owned by Germany was known as the Prussian empire right?

[Terry Duncan]

No, but it is easy to confuse.

Prussia, via a few wars and such, owned many seperate pieces of land across Germany, as Brandenburg-Prussia etc. When Germany unified it was as a confederation of states, under Prussian leadership, but the states retained their own armies even into WWI - Saxon, Bavarian and Wurttemberg as well as Prussia.

The Wikipedia article is quite good, and has some reasonable maps showing the evolution of the German state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_of_Germany

[Kelvin]

The borders of Deutsches Reich didn't change between 1871 and 1914.

Yes that is correct.

Perhaps the poster was thinking of all the lands Germany wanted to annex after her long desired war was started?

One of the single most important factors to many in Germany was the Russian Great Program, enacted shortly before the war it placed Germany in a position where she would be outnumbered by the Russian standing army alone by 1917 and could not hope to fight a successful war. It did not have any direct impact on the politicians in the July Crisis as such, but it was very much a concern of the military men. This is yet another reason Moltke felt war was better now than later, as in 1914 he thought Germany still retained some hope of winning.

Hi, Terry, u get my point, I mean German adopt aggressive policy, but did not extend her border, but in overseas, she at least receeived a naval bases in Shandong, China in 1898 and divided Samoa with USA.

And again, Russian Great Programme concerned the German war planner most. With French loan and arms, Russian was becoming stronger. For German military, war was fougth sooner better than later. Russian had 27 army corps located in European Russia and additonal army corps located in Caucasus for the Ottoman Empire. As Japan was friendly toward Russia since 1910, Rusian rear was safe and was free to deal with German and Austrian threat. Also the strengthening of Serbian and Montenegrin armies in two Balkan wars , French 3 year Army Bill of 1913 and active British participation in military talks further disburbed the General Staff of Germany.

[Kelvin]

No, but it is easy to confuse.

Prussia, via a few wars and such, owned many seperate pieces of land across Germany, as Brandenburg-Prussia etc. When Germany unified it was as a confederation of states, under Prussian leadership, but the states retained their own armies even into WWI - Saxon, Bavarian and Wurttemberg as well as Prussia.

The Wikipedia article is quite good, and has some reasonable maps showing the evolution of the German state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_of_Germany

The Imperial Germany was somewhat the conferation of the German kings. But Prussian had dominant position in this. The kingdom of Prussia accounted for 60% of German population and also two-third of their territiory. ( 40 million in 1914). The seond one came Bavaria, had a population of 6.8 million in 1914 and then Saxony , had nearly 5 millon and Wurttenberg had nearly 3 million in 1914. All these states had their own armies but was under the command of Prussia in wartime.

[TalkingZero]

This might get confusing....>_<
I think i heard in the 1700s that Austria made a woman queen, so prussia demanded land from Austria. So Prussia had controll over Spain and France was it's ally, however britain was the onlly country to directly support Austria. But throughout the war, Enlgand kinda made it obvious it was only fighting for an excuse to have a battle with France, and didn't really care about Austria. But then Hungary came and saved the day, and created the Austria Hungary empire.

[Kelvin]

This might get confusing....>_<
I think i heard in the 1700s that Austria made a woman queen, so prussia demanded land from Austria. So Prussia had controll over Spain and France was it's ally, however britain was the onlly country to directly support Austria. But throughout the war, Enlgand kinda made it obvious it was only fighting for an excuse to have a battle with France, and didn't really care about Austria. But then Hungary came and saved the day, and created the Austria Hungary empire.

Talkingzero, I think u mean Queen Maria Theresa of Austria who came to power in 1740. And Frederick II of Prussia launched a war to capture Silesia in 1740 and France was not the ally of Prussia and the aggressiveness of Frederick II of Prussia and led to so called diplomatic revolution in 1756 in which two long term enemies : Habsburg of Austria and Bourbon of France joined hand to counter the emergence of Prussia and recapture of Silesia desired by Austria and led to breakout of Seven Years' War. On one side, Prussia with six small German states like Brunswick and Britain fought the bigger alliance like Austria, France, Spain with some strong German states like Bavaria and later even joined by Russia. Prussian bore the brunt of fighting in the continent while British provided financial assistance and struggled for hegemony with France over India and Canadia. This was 1700's events.

With regard to creation of Austria-Hungary, it was 1800's event. Hungarian always resisted to Austrian rule. During 1848-49, Hungarian uprising was on the verge of victory but was suppressed by Russian army in 1849. After the defeat of Prusso-Austrian war of 1866, German ruler ( accounted for 20% of Population in empire only) in Austria found it difficult to rule their 11 nationalities and forced to provide concession to Magyar of Hungary and shared with power with them. Since all Magyar lived in Austrian Empire, not like Italian or Slav like Serbian and Czech, would not be absorbed by other national powers and without mother country outside, the Magyar was also willing to accept this concession and this led to creation of Austro-Hungarian Empire in 1867. Thsi was 1800's event.

[Dave Bender]

That wasn't the primary reason.

The Habsburgs considered themselves rightful successors of the so called "Holy Roman Empire" right up to 1866. Prussia and other North German states chafed under Habsburg rule, especially after the Protestant Reformation. Although nominally sovereign, Prussia and other German states had to endure Austrian meddling. Prussian King Friederich II (The Great) decided the time was right to break completely from from Habsburg control.

Thanks to skillful diplomacy by Fürst von Metternich the Habsburgs regained a measure of control over Germany after the Naponeonic wars. Hence Prussia had to fight the Habsburgs again during 1866 to permanently expel them from meddling in places like the North German states of Schleswig and Holstein.

[Terry Duncan]

Hence Prussia had to fight the Habsburgs again during 1866 to permanently expel them from meddling in places like the North German states of Schleswig and Holstein.

Please! Dont dress it up as some kind of noble gesture that Prussia ade. Prussia wished to exclude Austria simply so she could dominate all the other German states, and for a unified Germany under her leadership - the reason all the Austrian Germans had to be excluded after 1866. As Bismarck noted, this would mean too many Southern Germans, and Catholics, to suit the Prussian desire for a unified Germany.

[Terry Duncan]

It is where the origins of the war arise. From the Treaty of Westphalia in 1648, through to the Napoleonic Wars and the rise of German nationalism, the Franco Prussian War of 1870-71, and the events around them caused the friction between the French and Germans. We still see it displayed here, although we have more posters of German origin and pro-German sentiment than we do French posters. A good case can be put forward by both sides to accuse the other of being the main problem, though to be honest, by 1914 it was not the Franco-German tensions that set off the war.

[Kelvin]

By 1914, German seemed more concern about Russia and then Britain. Given relative small population of France , ( 39 million in 1914), French military potential was limited. On the other hand, Russia had the largest population of Europe. ( Combination of Austria-Hungary and Germany in 1914) and also had much natural resouces for industrial development ( Iron, Manganese and coal in Ukraine, Oil in Maikop, Gronzy and Baku and other ores in Ural and Siberia. So, Russian military and economic potential was huge and maybe one day, stronger than Germany. Harold Mackinder 's theory maybe had some effect on German politican.

[Terry Duncan]

I think it's because they thought they could beat Germany and take it's land, however they couldn't do that with England.

France had no illusions about beating Germany, they never dreamed they could do it alone, and were not too sure about doing it with Russia - the money for the military railroads had not produced the results desired by France by 1914. France did not have any form of offensive war plan at least until 1911 when Plan XVI allowed a major counter offensive only after the German forces had been committed, and the infamous Plan XVII only adopted just prior to the war.

France certainly had capacity for mischief, but Germany was rather more involved in mischief between 1905 and 1914 than France, having a big hand in every crisis.