Why did America intervene in WW1?

[favedave]

The timing of American intervention and Russia's first revolution beginning in February, 1917 did not give America, or more rightly Wilson permission to join the Allies. It was merely coincidental timing.

[YM]

I can't say that I have researched the public debate at the time of the American declaration of war against Germany, but there was a considerable reservoir of pro-German or at least anti-British sentiment in the US before 1917. First of all, there were a lot of people who had family ties to Germany, being either born there or the children or grandchildren of German immigrants to the US. World War I occurred after a period of considerable Jewish immigration to the US from eastern Europe and these Jews were very pro-German due to the fact that Germany AT THE TIME had an enlightened policy towards Jews, as opposed to notorious Czarist antisemitism and pogroms. Also, there was a considerable population of Irish-Americans who held feelings of immense resentment against Britain.
Add to this was the fact that the War of 1812 was only 100 years before and there was considerable anti-monarchial, anti-imperialist feeling in the US against Britain which started as a result of the American Revolution and War of 1812 and which could still be felt among the population at large. Thus, President Wilson had to sell American participation in the War as "the war to end all wars" and "the war to make the world safe for democracy". How could they push the second theme if they were allied with Czarist absolutism? Thus, the overthrow of the Czar certainly made things easier for President Wilson. Had the Czar still been in power, could Wilson have sold entry into the war based only on the German resumption of unrestricted submarine warfare by itself?

[Terry Duncan]

First of all, there were a lot of people who had family ties to Germany, being either born there or the children or grandchildren of German immigrants to the US.

Quite possibly, but there were far more with the same ties to Britain, France, Italy and Russia. You are identifying a minority of people in the US and imagining they would have a great influence on US policy.

Had the Czar still been in power, could Wilson have sold entry into the war based only on the German resumption of unrestricted submarine warfare by itself?

Without any problem. I presume you have heard of the Zimmermann Telegram, where Germany tried to bribe Mexico to declare war on the US with a message sent through the US diplomatic cable Wilson had, as a goodwill gesture allowed, Germany to use after Britain cut the German cables in 1914?

[favedave]

The "goodwill gesture" by Wilson (through Col. House on a diplomatic tour from Britain to Germany and back) is a bit suspect.
The British did cut Germany's 5 trans-Atlantic cables within hours of Britain's declaration of war on Germany on August 4, 1914. I don't believe the Alert (the ship) meant to cut the cables so much as to tap them. Nor do I believe that Wilson was unaware of the Brits tapping the American cable until the Zimmerman Telegram headed its ugly rear. Neither the British nor the French were interested in having the US involved on the ground until after the costs in terms of manpower of Verdun and the Somme were known at the end of 1916. Having the United States be the Allies' storehouse was quite sufficient for those in power on both sides of the Atlantic. But in July, 1916, German saboteurs blew up Black Tom Island in NYC's harbor and did a great deal of damage to American munitions plants around the country. This was more than sufficient reason to declare war on Germany, but Wilson was running for re-election on the platform "He kept us out of war," because the Republicans had already staked out the pro-war position, led by Teddy Roosevelt. Thus the declaration would have to wait until the Germans did something else which could be seen as casus belli. Unrestricted submarine warfare and the Zimmerman telegram fit the requirements exactly.

[Terry Duncan]

The "goodwill gesture" by Wilson (through Col. House on a diplomatic tour from Britain to Germany and back) is a bit suspect.

Not really. Wilson offered the Germans what he thought was a communication method that would allow him to to keep in touch with them without Britain being able to monitor or control. The cutting of the German cables was a deliberate act as that allowed Britain to control the communications and thus what people knew about the war with any degree of speed - news did filter through other channels but it was not reliable and took time at first.

With regards to Wilson knowing the British were tapping the cables, he may have suspected this, but I have seen nothing to indicate this was ever noted on any official level. It is often hinted at that Wilson knew or suspected, but I have yet to see anything that indicates this, or that he knew and conspired with the British to keep such knowledge secret as some claim.

[glenn239]

I presume you have heard of the Zimmermann Telegram, where Germany tried to bribe Mexico to declare war on the US with a message sent through the US diplomatic cable Wilson had, as a goodwill gesture allowed, Germany to use after Britain cut the German cables in 1914?

I agree with Dave; Wilson's grand gesture can be suspected as a set-up.

[Terry Duncan]

I agree with Dave; Wilson's grand gesture can be suspected as a set-up.

Suspected. Certain posters 'suspect' Wilson was an idealist determined to be nothing more than an idealist when it suits them, also to being an idiot and totally naive where that suits. Wilson's entire career would seem to indicate he was not exactly the scheming and calculating sort - his distaste for politics for one would indicate this!

Of course it would be nice to see some actual supporting evidence for this, or even for coming to the idea that it might be a set up? Wilson can hardly be accused of knowing that Germany would start ochestrating terrorist campaigns on US soil, or trying to encourage other governments to declare war on the US. Furthermore, at the point Wilson made the offer, the short war theory still held sway, so there is very little obvious gain for Wilson in such a motive.

[favedave]

There is actually plenty of evidence that Wilson was an activist in support of the Allies from the start. There is also plenty of evidence that he was indeed a schemer who chose to operate outside "The Beltway" as they say today. I would post a long paper based on the front page stories of the New York Times from the four week period on either side of the Black Tom explosions that obliterated the Allies primary munitions depot, but it is too lengthy for here. The gist of it is that German saboteurs operating out of the German Embassy in New York City did blow up the island located 500 yards from Ellis Island and the Statue of Liberty (causing sever damage to the statue) and blowing out every window on the west side of Manhattan, to around 42nd Street, all of the New Jersey shore communities to Fort Lee, all of the windows on Staten Island and substantial numbers of windows in Brooklyn where it was exposed to the blast directly south of the southern tip of Manhattan. Wilson, who was aboard the presidential yacht escorting the cargo Uboat Deutschland out of Chesapeake Bay to protect it from a Royal Navy destroyer flotilla waiting beyond the three mile limit, learned that it was the work of German agents before he waved Auf Wiederseine to the Deuschland. He ordered the "Federal Agents" in New York to tell the Times to print, the following day, that the explosions were accidentally set off and positively not the work of German Agents. The investigators in New York at that time were not even able to get on the island because the still raging fires were still cooking off all manner of artillery and small arms munitions and would continue to do so for the next three days. The Torch on the Statue of Liberty was permanently closed to the public due to the structural damage. Liberty bore the shrapnal holes in her copper skin until 1988's restoration.

Wilson is a complex individual. But first and foremost, he was in control every moment he was in the White House, until his stroke.

[Terry Duncan]

There is actually plenty of evidence that Wilson was an activist in support of the Allies from the start.

That is a lot different to knowing the British were tapping the US diplomatic cables, let alone being in some way party to it.

Wilson, who was aboard the presidential yacht escorting the cargo Uboat Deutschland out of Chesapeake Bay to protect it from a Royal Navy destroyer flotilla waiting beyond the three mile limit, learned that it was the work of German agents before he waved Auf Wiederseine to the Deuschland. He ordered the "Federal Agents" in New York to tell the Times to print, the following day, that the explosions were accidentally set off and positively not the work of German Agents.

So Wilson indulges in two acts that are decidedly in favour of Germany, but this somehow shows some form of cunning to work in favour of Britain? How does denying the Germans caused the Black Tom explosions show anything other than Wilson deluding himself and anyone who would listen that it was not the Germans? Hadnt he made a similar fool of himself accepting a 'we wont sink passenger ships' statement from the Germans only a day or so before they sank the Sussex in 1916?

He may have been pro-peace and idealistic, he may even have deluded himself many times, but Germany kept on pushing with her actions, and eventually even Wilson acted.

Not that this gets us any closer to any substantiation over the notion that Wilson knew or suspected the British were tapping the diplomatic cables, or offering any possible gain for him to know about it and keep quiet from 1914-1917.

[South]

Good morning Fave Dave,

A technical point;......

Since we have forum participants from age 13 to the elderly and senile (me), it's obligatory to point out for their benefit that embassies are located at national capitals (with some exceptions). The German embassy was in Washington, D.C.; not New York City.

The base of operations for the munitions depot(s) explosions probably involved (my guess) the "German employment bureau" established in New York City in August, 1915. They had branches Philadelphia, Bridgeport, Connecticut, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Chicago and Cincinnati. These cities were sites of munitions factories.

Of course, Count Johann von Bernstoriff, Germany's ambassador, surely ran the plot.

Having a good time reading the recent thread posts........

Warm regards,

Bob

[favedave]

Let's start with the American offer to the Germans of using the American cable for coded messages. What would Wilson get out of it? The good will of the Germans, and any information that might be useful for the Chief Executive of the United States of America the British in room 40 came across, as imbodied by the Zimmermann Telegram. What would the British get by providing this secret information to Wilson, for however long the war lasted? First, his support for any legislation, particularly loans which insured Britain's munition and food needs would be met. Second, that Wilson would not be too zealous in pressing the whole freedom of the seas and neutral trading rights agenda. Wilson, while speaking out of both sides of his mouth, leaned over so far in favor of Britain's blockade and munitions purchases that his Secretary of State, William Jennings Bryant resigned very noisely (he did everything very noisely) in protest. He was replaced by Robert Lansing who took messages for Colonel House, Wilson's real Secretary of State. What would have happen if the British had not told the American's that they were tapping the American cable and Wilson or worse, his political enemies found out about it? I don't think the Foreign Office would be that stupid. Besides they had to get the Germans to use the American cable so they would have something to tap! So they told House what they had done. He immediately recommend to Wilson that he (House) make the offer to the Germans after he learned about it from the Foreign Office. House's visits to Britain and Berlin, then back to Britain were ostensibly to negotiate a peaceful "nobody wins nobody loses" settlement. At this point, neither side had bled enough to given in ( of course later in the war both sides had bled too much to give in). This outcome was a foregone conclusion before House left Washington. It was merely reaffirmed in London and Berlin. This is when he made to offer of the American cable. Neither House or Wilson were idiots. Wilson was also a leading American historian. To say he had a distain for politics is like saying Ceasar had a distain for politics.

By early 1915 American supplied munitions had already become critical to the Allied War effort. Britain and France were in desperate need of financing, which came through J.P. Morgan. But purchasing war material on such a massive scale also required an ameniable Congress to assure that neutrality laws did not impede the transshipment of food and munitions. WWI was an economic bonanza for America, which was coming out of a recession which hit just as Wilson entered the White House in 1913. Wilson could afford make lofty statements which sounded good because they cost him nothing politically. "I did not raise my boy to be a soldier" went a song of the period. However, American boys were raised to make money when opportunity knocked.

"Indulging in two acts which favor the Germans" Neither really did. The Deuschland was a PR ploy by Germany to draw attention to the lopsidedness of American trade policy and its goods going exclusively to the Allies. To protect the reputation of Mr Neutrality, Wilson turned the German's PR ploy to his own political advantage. There was absolutely no need for the President of the United States to put his own body in harms way. Any of the escorting U.S. Navy warships fufilled that role. Instructing the Federal authorities to state that Black Tom was an industrial accident before it could be investigated, or the damage could be fully assessed, was done to keep Wilson from appearing to be a fool. The same issues of the Times also reported on the doings of Wilson's rival in the upcoming Presidential elections of 1916. Specifically it reported on a meeting between Charles Evans Hughes, the candidate and Teddy Roosevelt the extremely popular ex President in which they joined forces in castigating Wilson's entire foreign policy program from Mexico to thea the war in Europe. The 1916 race was a squeeker which Wilson barely won on the slogan "He kept us out of war." The irony is that Germany had declared war on the United States with Black Tom. That Germany was responsible can be verified by the fact that Germany under Adolf Hitler agreed to pay off the damages in 1939. Germany retired that debt in 1959.

[favedave]

Thanks for the correction. It was run out of the German Consulate in Manhattan by Count Johann von Bernstorff. The saboteurs actually did meet up elsewhere, probably German Employment Bureau. Bernstorff also orchastrated the infamous advertisment which advised Americans not to sail on the Lusitania across the page in the NY Times from the Lucy's sailing schedule. This was the only time and the only ship the Germans ever published such an ad for. If it had been normal policy to post such warnings to transAtlantic travelers, the ads would have appeared every day. But, curiously it was only this one time.

[Terry Duncan]

Let's start with the American offer to the Germans of using the American cable for coded messages. What would Wilson get out of it? The good will of the Germans, and any information that might be useful for the Chief Executive of the United States of America the British in room 40 came across, as imbodied by the Zimmermann Telegram.

So much so that when the Zimmermann Telegram was sent the British had to go through an elaborate deception (and delay) to avoid revealing they were tapping the cables. All rather pointless if there was the slightest truth in the notion that Wilson already knew.

"Indulging in two acts which favor the Germans" Neither really did. The Deuschland was a PR ploy by Germany to draw attention to the lopsidedness of American trade policy and its goods going exclusively to the Allies. To protect the reputation of Mr Neutrality, Wilson turned the German's PR ploy to his own political advantage.

Taking part and therefore sanctioning a German PR ploy is entirely favourable to Germany. As you point out, Wilson didnt have to become involved at all.

Instructing the Federal authorities to state that Black Tom was an industrial accident before it could be investigated, or the damage could be fully assessed, was done to keep Wilson from appearing to be a fool.

The German government commits an act of war against the US, and then Wilson tells everyone it was nothing to do with the Germans is somehow not favourable to the Germans? Maybe a declaration of war would have been a neutral act?

Of course, if the entire operation had been organised through Berlin, Wilson deciding to hide it would have really backfired if the British then leaked information showing Wilson was lying. That would of course have had the really 'bad for Britain' result of costing Wilson the election and putting the party committed to joining the war in power.

[favedave]

The British had to go through an elaborate deception to prevent the Germans from knowing that they had cracked virtually every code (Navy, Army and diplomatic) the Germans used. In World War II they did exactly the same thing to prevent the Germans and Japanese from knowing that they had cracked the enigma code both Axis partners used for all of their transmissions. The British had already given the Americans the Japanese diplomatic code, which is why the President knew the contents of the 14 part message to be delivered to Washington before the Pearl Harbor attack before the Japanese Embassy did.

You simply must stop looking through the wrong end of the telescope. In the summer of 1916 the British had exactly the arrangement with the United States they wanted. The Somme was only 29 days old and a breakthrough was still expected any minute. Wilson did not want to commit American troops to the ground war. The Republicans did. The British did not want American ground troops committed to the war, since that would give Wilson (or a Republican president) a seat at the peace table.

An attack on the United States (which produced only three deaths despite the enormity of the damage) by Germany would force the US into an immediate declaration of war, if it were known. Wilson would have been defeated in November in any case. The Deutschland was an entirely symbolic act to gain American sympathy for the blockaded Germany. Wilson used it as a safe yet dramatic opportunity to bolster his reputation as a neutral who "kept us out of war." The AEF could not be sent to Europe before the elections. Therefore Wilson would be seen as a do nothing coward who abetted the Germans as they committed atrocities like Belgium on America's shore.

[Terry Duncan]

The British had to go through an elaborate deception to prevent the Germans from knowing that they had cracked virtually every code (Navy, Army and diplomatic) the Germans used.

It was the Americans they were anxious to deceive, not the Germans as such. they would not tell Wilson how they really had the message and invented a way they had come by it, something not needed if Wilson already knew.

You simply must stop looking through the wrong end of the telescope.

You need to stop looking for conspiricies, and produce evidence and not opinion.