SMGs and non-prone machine guns

[Big Yehudah]

To what extent were SMGs/Machine Pistols and Light machine guns used during WWI? Specifically, automatic firearms fired while standing up, NOT prone. Any information, photographs, articles, links would be appreciated.

[Halle]

The German MP18 , and the Italian Berretta model 1918 . The first saw action , though hardly extensive , the latter I'm not sure about . The French were developing one in 1918 that was still being tested in 1919 .

[LineDoggie]

To what extent were SMGs/Machine Pistols and Light machine guns used during WWI? Specifically, automatic firearms fired while standing up, NOT prone. Any information, photographs, articles, links would be appreciated.

Mle.1915 Chauchat was designed for Marching/Walking fires to keep the enemy heads down while assaulting. the Later 1918 BAR was also designed for that tactical application, even down to issuing a gunner belt with a cup on the hip for the rifles buttstock

[Big Yehudah]

thanks for the help.

Question... Tatical application = non-prone shooting?

Are there any examples of machine guns being used tactically but which were designed to be used prone?

[Latze]

I am not convinced that the MP18/I was intended and designed for upright firing (which does not exclude such use by frontline troops). If one reads the thorough discussion of design and test-firing of the weapon by Robert Bruce ("Machine Guns of World War I", Ramsbury 1997, p. 46ff) it becomes clear that the best shooting with the MP18/I can be done from the prone position. The strongest indicator that this was the design intent is the position of the magazine. The other Great War era weapon often mentioned as the "first sub-machine gun" the Villar-Perosa M1915 was also intended for prone use (just look at the spade grips).

The use of the Chauchat from upright position is discussed in the "Manual of the Chief of Platoon of Infantry" (rereleased as "French Trench Warfare", London, w/o year, p. 82f and 158f).

[James A Pratt III]

A shipment of Thompson SMGs was on the way when the Armistice was signed.

[sallyg]

thanks for the help.

Question... Tatical application = non-prone shooting?

Are there any examples of machine guns being used tactically but which were designed to be used prone?

The Lewis was issued with a shoulder belt that permitted firing from the hip while walking.
Source: my Grandfather, who carried one.

[Sheldrake]

To what extent were SMGs/Machine Pistols and Light machine guns used during WWI? Specifically, automatic firearms fired while standing up, NOT prone. Any information, photographs, articles, links would be appreciated.

Why do you want to know?

As has been pointed out, the Lewis could be fired from the hip. It was at the battle of Hamel in April 1918 to fire over high crops.

At that point, the two Australian Lewis gun teams that were attached to each platoon went into action, providing covering fire for the advancing riflemen. Normally a crew served weapon that is fired from the prone position, due to the tall crops which obscured the gunners' view of the target, the Lewis gunners had to stand up and fire from the hip, suppressing the German machine-guns. In doing so, they took heavy casualties, but they bought enough time for a company to rush two of the machine guns. As another Maxim opened up on the left, Private Henry Dalziel, a "second" in a Lewis gun crew, charged the gun with just a revolver, killing its two-man crew and capturing another. He was later awarded the Victoria Cross.[39] page 288 in chapter IX http://static.awm.gov.au/images/collect ... 98--1-.PDF

The advantage of the Lewis and other LMGs were that it meant the attacked could protect gains with automatic weapons. Notes that at this stage of the war the weak Austraalian platoons had tweo Lews giuns per platoon. Close on 1 LMG for every 10 men in rifle companies.

[sallyg]

A great source for details, (and to explode a few "they never learned" brains) is

http://www.oldcontemptibles.com/manuals ... phlets.php

See, especially SS143 manual, issued February, 1917 for infantry use.