Quimical weapons

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Gen. Erwin Rommel
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Quimical weapons

#1

Post by Gen. Erwin Rommel » 29 Apr 2003, 14:39

Hi all, rigth now i'm working im a project about Quimical weapons and the moral problems about the use of them for philosophy, can someoe tell me when they were used for the first time and where, i think they were used im 1914 or 15 for the first time by the germans but i'm not sure.
Thanks

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Marcus
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#2

Post by Marcus » 29 Apr 2003, 16:12

Quimical?

In case you are referring to chemical weapons, here is an article from this very site:
Greg Goebel wrote:The Germans were leaders in industrial chemistry at the beginning of the 20th century, and so when the First World War broke out, they logically used their chemical expertise to develop weapons. The consequences of their actions would be far-reaching and unforseen.

1. 1914 - 1915 - Gas warfare begins

The history of chemical warfare traces largely back to a single man: Fritz Haber, who developed poison gases for Germany during the First World War. Haber was a world-famous chemist, who had developed a crucial process for extracting nitrates from the atmosphere. This process was used to manufacture fertilizer, and later to make explosives.
Haber was a dedicated German patriot. He had a "Prussian" sense of discipline and duty, enhanced by the fact that he was of Jewish origin, though he renounced the faith in 1902. His minority background led him to want to be "more German than the Germans".
When the war broke out in August 1914, the Germans were confident of victory, but their offensive bogged down into a bloody stalemate of trench warfare in the West. With the front deadlocked, Haber focused his mind on what he could contribute to German victory. He believed that poison gas would penetrate the strongest trenches and fortifications, allowing the German army to score critical breakthroughs through Allied defenses.
Poison gases of various sorts were already available as unwanted by-products of chemical processes. At his Berlin institute, founded by the Kaiser himself, Haber began experimenting with and refining such toxins to find those suitable for battlefield use. He initially focused on chlorine gas, the diatomic chlorine molecule, a highly reactive chemical that was used in the dye industry.
His home was on the grounds of the institute. While work and home life can clash, in the case of Haber the two quickly led to an outright war. His wife Clara was also a chemist, and was as strong-willed as he was. She believed that science should be used for constructive purposes, not to make weapons of mass destruction.
Fritz Haber tried to keep Clara in the dark about his work on poison gas. In December 1914, however, there was an explosion in the lab, and one of the workers, a Professor Sachur, was hurt. Clara rushed to Sachur, who was an old friend that in fact she had introduced to her husband. The man died. Clara made her objections to her husband's work plain, but Fritz continued his work on chemical weapons. Their marriage degenerated into warfare.
The startling thing about Haber's work on chemical weapons is that he did it on his own initiative. In fact, he approached the German military at the end of 1914 to sell them on poison gas, but the military had no great respect for scientists, and poison gases seemed unsporting anyway. Haber nonetheless convinced them to watch a demonstration, conducted at a military testing ground outside Cologne. Clara was present, and her loathing of her husband's activities increased.
With stalemate on the front, the German military could not be certain of victory. Defeat would be the greatest dishonor, so in early 1915 they decided to swallow their scruples and use Haber's chemical weapons. They gave him officer's rank, and he helped organize a chemical corps.

The Germans conducted the first chlorine gas attack on 22 April 1915, against French and Algerian troops facing them at Ypres in Belgium. The Germans set up 5,730 cylinders of chlorine gas and opened their valves. 180 tonnes of gas were released, forming a dense green cloud that rolled into Allied lines.
At 30 parts of chlorine to a million parts of air, chlorine gas is a nasty irritant that causes harsh coughing. At 1,000 parts per million, it is lethal, caustically stripping the lining from the lungs and causing victims to drown in their own fluids.
The results of the gas attack were devastating. The French and Algerian soldiers choked, their lungs burning, and slowly died. The gas cloud tinted everything a sickly green. Those who could escape the cloud fled in panic. Before dawn on 24 April, the Germans poured gas into Canadian lines, with similar results.
Allied casualties in the two days of gas attacks were estimated at 5,000 dead, with 10,000 more disabled, half of them permanently. Despite the fact that the French had captured a German soldier who was carrying a gas mask and who provided advance details of the attack when interrogated, the report was lost in the noise and the soldiers in the trenches had no warning.
The attack was unbelievably effective. Irritant chemicals, essentially tear gases, had already been fired in artillery shells by both the French and the Germans, but they had not proven to be much more than a tactical nuisance. Even the German military was astonished by the results of Haber's chlorine gas. To Haber's fury, they were not prepared to exploit the breach they had made in Allied lines, and did not commit any serious force for a follow-up attack. This may have been partly because they didn't have the protective gear for large numbers of troops at the time.
The Germans launched a number of gas attacks during May 1915, with the last taking place on 24 May. Allied troops had been issued primitive flannel filter masks, which were dipped in a soda solution and tied around the face, but they unsurprisingly proved ineffective. The gas attacks then ceased. The prevailing winds over the lines had changed direction, and except for two small-scale attacks in October, the Germans did not return to gas attacks in earnest on the Western Front until December.
The attacks in April and May represented a squandered opportunity for the Germans. Had the gas attacks been performed on a larger scale and followed up, they could have decisively changed the course of the war. In practice, they just made the stalemate even more miserable.

That was not quite realized at the time, however. The German papers were enthusiastic over the effectiveness of poison gas, and some even claimed that gas weapons were more humane than bullets and shells. Haber was promoted to captain. He threw a dinner party to celebrate. Clara Haber was not in a congratulatory mood. They had a furious argument that evening, with Clara accusing Fritz of perverting science. He called her a traitor to Germany.
Her verbal protests could not sway her husband. That night, she took his army pistol and shot herself through the heart. Fritz Haber left for the Eastern Front the next day, leaving his wife's funeral arrangements to others.
The change in prevailing winds allowed the Germans to use their new gas weapons on the Russians. On 31 May 1915, Haber supervised the first chlorine gas attack on the Eastern Front. Gas proved extremely deadly against the poorly-equipped Russians, though it was not very effective in winter cold, as it tended to freeze.

2. 1915 - 1916 - Allied response

The Allies were unsurprisingly outraged at the German use of poison gas. The British Army assigned Major Charles Howard Foulkes of the Royal Engineers to implement a response. Foulkes was energetic and capable, and he quickly implemented schemes for gas defense and offense.
In June 1915, 2,500,000 "Hypo Helmets" were issued to Allied troops. These were primitive gas masks, made of flannel that was chemically impregnated to neutralize chlorine, with eyepieces made out of celluloid. They were far better than nothing, but they could not resist an extended gas attack. Given enough gas, any filter would eventually become saturated and ineffective.
By early fall, Foulkes and his "Special Companies", later "Special Brigades", for gas warfare were ready to respond to German gas attacks with one of their own. On 25 September 1915, the British conducted their first gas attack at Loos, Belgium, using 5,500 cylinders of chlorine gas, in support of a major ground offensive.
The gas attack was partly fumbled, with the gas blowing back into Allied lines and other troubles, resulting in thousands of Allied casualties. However, the effect of gas on the Germans was brutal, and the Allies were able to quickly overrun the Germans' front-line trenches. It did little good. The British smashed themselves against the German rear defenses, and suffered 50,000 casualties. The Germans counterattacked and pushed back the penetrations within a week.

On 9 December 1915, with the winds again in their favor, the Germans launched another gas attack on the Allied lines, this time against the British at Ypres in Belgium. The Germans used chlorine and a new gas, "phosgene".
Phosgene was another industrial chemical by-product that Fritz Haber and his institute had evaluated as a weapon. Its lethal concentration was only an eighteenth that of chlorine, and its action was subtle and deadly. A soldier who inhaled a lethal dose of phosgene would feel some irritation at first, and then feel fine for a day or two. In many cases, men would simply shrug off the gas attack as inconsequential, or hardly notice they had been gassed. Then the linings of their lungs would break down, and as with chlorine gas they would drown in their own lung fluids, coughing up a watery stream until they could choked and died.
Fortunately, the British had realized the summer before that phosgene might be used as a chemical weapon and were prepared for it. They had developed the improved "P Helmet", with better impregnation and a rubber exhaust tube. Nine million P Helmets had been issued by December, and managed to limit Allied casualties.
The British were quick to adopt phosgene in response. In June 1916, during the battle of the Somme, they used the new gas, pouring out a huge cloud of phosgene and chlorine gas along a 27 kilometer (17 mile) front. The cloud penetrated up to 19 kilometers (12 miles) behind German lines, killing everything unprotected. The British became particularly fond of phosgene.

In 1915, both sides had only been experimenting with poison gas. In 1916, it became a standard weapon and was used in great quantity. The British established a large research and development facility on Salisbury Plain at Porton Down for development of chemical weapons.
However, the Allies were at a significant disadvantage in chemical warfare. Germany's chemical industry was the biggest in the world. Germany's eight giant chemical firms were united in a cartel named the "Interessen Gemeinschaft (IG)". The IG was willing and capable of producing large quantities of chemical weapons.
Soldiers hated poison gas, more than they hated most weapons. The trench war was bad enough; gas made it much more dreadful. Soldiers were almost as scared of their own gas as they were of the enemy's, since blunders were common, and shifting winds made gas releases potentially dangerous to everyone. 57 of Foulkes' men were killed by their own gas during the Battle of the Somme. Gas masks were extremely uncomfortable, and the terror caused by gas extreme, particularly after the introduction of phosgene. "It was remarked as a joke that if someone yelled 'gas', everyone in France would put on a mask," one soldier recollected.

3. The livens projector

The technology for gas warfare continued to improve. In early 1916, both the French and the Germans began firing gas shells out of conventional artillery, and the British began to use gas barrages on a large scale the next year. Artillery shells could not achieve the gas concentrations provided by cylinders, but they could reach far back into enemy lines, reducing the risk of gas exposure to "friendly" forces.
While the Allies had at first lagged the Germans in developing new gas weapons, they soon came up with innovations of their own. The first was the British "Livens Projector", invented by Captain F.H. Livens, a British Army officer who took a personal interest in finding new and more effective ways to kill Germans.
The Livens Projector was simply a metal pipe about a meter or so long that was buried in the soil at a 45-degree angle. Large numbers of the projectors were set up in banks. Each projector was loaded with a drum containing about 14 kilograms (30 pounds) of gas, and the bank of projectors was fired by an electrical charge, sending the drums tumbling through air for a range of over a kilometer and a half (about a mile).
Each drum contained a bursting charge to blast it open when it landed near enemy trenches, dousing the enemy with gas with little warning. The Livens Projector was cheap, crude, and extremely effective, as it could be used in mass numbers to produce an overwhelming, terrifying barrage. It was first used at the Battle of Arras on 9 April 1917. As a witness observed:
"The discharge took place practically simultaneously: a dull red flash seemed to flicker all along the front as far as the eye could reach, and there was a slight ground tremor, followed a little later by a muffled roar, as 2,340 of these sinister projectiles hurtled through space, turning clumsily over and over, and some of them, no doubt, colliding in flight. About 20 seconds later they landed in masses in the German positions, and after a brief pause the steel cases were burst open by the explosive charges inside, and nearly fifty tons of liquid phosgene were liberated which vaporized instantly and formed a cloud that Livens, who watched the discharge from an aeroplane, noticed it still so thick as to be visible as it floated over Vimy and Bailleu villages."
The British became very competent at setting up and using massed Livens Projectors, and developed a variety of projectiles for it. The Germans tried to copy it, but the Livens Projector gave the British an edge on the Germans in gas warfare, and the Germans never quite caught back up.

The Germans had another trick of their own, however. On the evening of 12 July 1917, the Germans fired shells into British trenches at Ypres, but when they burst the shells released a brown oily fluid, not a gas. The stuff had a horrible smell, something like rancid garlic or mustard, but it otherwise didn't seem particularly offensive and caused only slight irritation to eyes and throat.
Remarkably, given the paranoia over gas attacks, many British troops didn't bother to put on gas masks. As the night wore on, they began to feel pain growing in their eyes and throat, and gradually suffered swelling and huge blisters wherever their skin had come into contact with the noxious fluid.
The results were horrendous, with all affected losing large patches of skin and many of the men blinded. Some died from the massive damage done to throat and lungs. The actual number of fatalities was low, but many of the victims were so badly hurt that they would not be fit to fight for months, if they ever recovered their health at all.
The Germans called their new weapon "Lost", or "Yellow Cross" after the marking on shells, in contrast to the "Green Cross" that designated chlorine and phosgene. The French quickly named it "Yperite", after its use at Ypres. The British codenamed it "HS", for "Hun Stuff", but its rank smell inspired another name that stuck: "mustard gas".
Its formal name was "dichloroethyl sulfide". Mustard was not used in its formulation, the smell was simply a coincidence. It was a "blistering agent", or in formal medical terms a "vesicant". It had actually been evaluated by the British some time earlier and rejected as insufficiently lethal. In fact, although mustard gas didn't have the killing power of phosgene, it was still a very useful weapon. The Germans had realized that improved Allied gas masks and training had rendered chlorine and phosgene gas ineffective. Haber then put his skills to work to develop a chemical weapon for which a gas mask could offer no protection.
Mustard gas did not dissipate like the other gases. The oily fluid could persist for a long time, and continue to cause misery and pain to anyone who came in contact with it, accidentally getting some of it on his boots and from there on his hands and face. It would freeze during the winter, and still be toxic when it thawed again in the spring.
Mustard gas was a vile substance, and manufacturing it was difficult and dangerous. The French were not able to begin full production of it until June 1918. The British built a large plant at Avonmouth to manufacture mustard gas. The gas would cost workers at the Avonmouth plant three deaths, a thousand burns, and endless illnesses, some of which would plague their victims all their lives.
The British Army did not obtain mustard gas until September 1918, and the Allies never seriously used mustard gas in combat. They made do with phosgene, with a vengeance. In early 1918, the British responded to the German mustard gas attacks with dense clouds of phosgene to overwhelm gas masks, with the poison released from big cylinders on train cars rolled up behind the lines.

The Germans launched their last major offensive in the West in March 1918. After initial success, the offensive fizzled out, and the Allies armies, now heavily reinforced by the Americans, pushed back the Germans relentlessly.
By this time, many of the artillery shells fired contained gas, with the proportion as as high as a third or even half. However, it hadn't proven a decisive weapon, and had done little more than make conditions worse for the soldiers in the trenches.
Gas could be highly effective if it were used against opponents that were not equipped to deal with it. As mentioned, the Germans used it with great effect against the Russians, inflicting what is now broadly estimated to be a half million casualties, and in October 1917, the Germans used phosgene to break the Italian defensive line in Northern Italy at Caporetto. The unprepared Italians were sent into terrified flight, and decisively defeated.
In contrast, troops who were equipped and trained to deal with gas attacks would suffer relatively minimal casualties, though bundling up against gas was stifling and exhausting, and life in a poisoned landscape was demoralizing.
Yet the gas shells kept flying overhead. One small incident stands out. On 14 October 1918, the British fired their new mustard gas shells into German positions at a Belgian village named Werwick. One of the injured was a corporal named Adolf Hitler. He was evacuated back to Germany by train a few days later, blinded, burned, and seething over his humiliation and the humiliation of his beloved Vaterland.
An armistice was declared in November 1918, and the shooting stopped. Gas was estimated to have killed about 100,000 men and injured a million. The number of men killed by gas was small compared to the number killed by other means, but gas had played a particularly unpleasant role in the conflict.
/Marcus


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#3

Post by Gen. Erwin Rommel » 29 Apr 2003, 16:57

Oops, yes Marcus i mean Chemical, i made comfusion because in portuguese you say "Quimicas" btw thanks a lot for the information.

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#4

Post by Ti.P » 30 Apr 2003, 08:52

Also it is often said that the germans used the first chemical weapons, however there are also sources which indicate that France used tear gas before the germans. This broke the barrier of morality, as before this time chemical weapons were not used as they were seen as "immoral" or "injust". The germans are then said to have responded with the deadly gases which lame the victim if they do not kill him.

For world war one check out http://www.firstworldwar.com/
the stuff that ive read there is the most unbiased that ive read

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#5

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 07 May 2003, 17:44

I believe the Thracians used sulfur dioxide against the Athenians in the seige of Thrace about 2200 years ago, read Ian Hogg's "Gas", great book if you can find it.

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Re: Quimical weapons

#6

Post by tigre » 20 Jun 2015, 22:23

Hello to all :D; a little complement dealing with this subject.....................

GASPIONIERE IM WELTKRIEGE. [Chemical troops in the World War].

At the beginning of the World War there was no chemical armament in the German Army. Not only had there been no technical preparation and research, but there was also lacking a military organization for chemical warfare. Faith in existing armament was so great at this time as to preclude thought of the necessity of chemical aids to combat. Very quickly, however, it was found that entrenched adversaries had excellent protection in the ground against infantry bullets and splinters of bursting shells. It was obviously necessary to develop a means of forcing the enemy into the open.

The first experiments with a 15-cm. gas grenade and the "B-mine" proved unsatisfactory from the _standpoint of mass employment; as it was not believed a sufficient concentration could be laid down to produce a definite tactical effect. It was therefore decided to employ the force of the wind to carry the gas against the enemy's positions, and the 35th Pioneer Regiment was fitted out as a chemical regiment. These were the first chemical warfare troops.

The first gas attack was made on 22 April, 1915, at 6:00 PM at Ypres. Six thousand gas containers, set in batteries of twenty each, were released in a period of five minutes over a four-mile front. A cloud of chlorine gas 600 to 900 yards deep was thus formed, and as a result, 5,000 prisoners and 60 guns were taken.

In the subsequent employment of gas mines, however, some disadvantages of chemical warfare began to be revealed. Great dependence had to be placed upon the weather, and changing wind conditions could make the gas dangerous to the troops releasing it. Also, considerable time was required for the emplacement of mines, which then stood as a threatening danger to friendly troops until they could be released. In many cases it was necessary to wait a week for a suitable opportunity to release the gas.

In 1916, the 35th Pioneer Regiment was augmented by the 36th for employment in chemical warfare. Also, the position of Gas Regiment Inspector was created in GHQ. Developments in materiel quickly followed and, in the spring of 1917, one hundred gas mines were exploded simultaneously, causing great loss among adversaries not yet experienced in gas discipline. A 20-cm. projector, with walls 1-cm. thick, was next developed to throw a thin-walled cylinder containing 12 to 15 liters of gas. This projector was designed to be embedded in the earth and exploded by electricity. Many hundreds could be-placed in batteries of twenty each and discharged simultaneously.

In playing the role of chemical troops throughout the World War, German engineers lived up to their honored traditions, continuing to lead the way in battle.

Source: Periodical Articles—Catalog. Review of Military Literature. March 1935.

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
Attachments
image014.jpg
1916, WWI German western front, 18cm "Gaswerfer". Gaswerfer were mortar-like devices designed to throw poisonous gas canisters at the enemy.......................
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Re: Quimical weapons

#7

Post by tigre » 22 Jun 2015, 17:44

Hello to all :D; a little more about this subject.....................

DER GASWERFERANGRIFF BEl FLITSCH AM 24. OKTOBER 1917. [The gas attack at Flitsch, 24 October, 1917.] Major Heydendorff.

Major Heydendorff gives credit for the first gas attack by means of projectors to the British, near Arras, on 24 April, 1917. The simultaneous discharge of a large number of gas drums, obtained by this method, flooded the trenches with gas to such an extent that respirators failed to keep it out, and the German losses in this and in the succeeding attacks were heavy. German headquarters at once decided to adopt the projector method, and the 15-cm. gas projector was soon produced. It consisted of a smooth tube with hemispherical end, without a mounting, for burying in the ground. The charge was fired electrically, and threw a gas drum containing 3 to 4 gallons of phosgene (COCl2), or Green-Cross, a distance of about 1,400 yards; ordinary bombs could be used instead of the gas drums.

An opportunity for the first trial of this new weapon was afforded in the autumn of the same year in the great Austro-German offensive, which resulted in the Italian disaster at Caporetto. The 35th Pioneer Battalion of the German Army, trained in gas-projector work, was allotted to the forces selected for the attack, the Fourteenth Army under General von Below. The area chosen for gas bombardment lay south of Flitsch and included deep ravines with steep sides, which had served the Italians well as covered positions for reserves. Of 1,000 projectors arranged for, 894 arrived and were dug in.

At 2:00 AM, 24 October, the artillery started a gas-shell bombardment, and five minutes later the whole of the projectors were fired, of which 47 failed to explode. There were also 29 prematures. The latter, by gassing the firing positions, spoiled to a great extent the rest of the program. It had been intended that each projector should fire one gas drum and then one ordinary bomb. Actually, by nearly 9:00 AM, it had only been possible to fire a second time with 269 of the projectors.

At 9:00 AM, the infantry went over the top, 63 German battalions and 72 Austro-Hungarian battalions advancing on a front of about 20 miles. The Italian lines were penetrated at Flitsch, at Karfreit (Caporetto) and at Tolmein.

Major Heydendorff states that the whole Italian garrison in the ravines, between 500 and 600 men, were found to have been killed by gas, and that the gas-projector bombardment, by thus eliminating all flanking fire from the ravines against the Austrians advancing on Flitsch, had doubtless influenced the events of the day.

Source: Periodical Articles-Catalog. Review of Military Literature. Dec 1934.

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
Attachments
image008.jpg
Gas projectors...........................
http://www.isonzo-gruppodiricercastorica.it/articoli/807-ottobre-1917-caporetto-l-ultima-battaglia-sull-isonzo.html
image008.jpg (33.04 KiB) Viewed 675 times

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Re: Quimical weapons

#8

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 23 Jun 2015, 17:33

Major Heydendorff gives credit for the first gas attack by means of projectors to the British, near Arras, on 24 April, 1917. The simultaneous discharge of a large number of gas drums, obtained by this method, flooded the trenches with gas to such an extent that respirators failed to keep it out, and the German losses in this and in the succeeding attacks were heavy. German headquarters at once decided to adopt the projector method,


Capt. Willian Livens, should be mentioned. He developed the Livens projector.

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Re: Quimical weapons

#9

Post by tigre » 27 Jun 2015, 22:55

Capt. Willian Livens, should be mentioned. He developed the Livens projector.
Thanks for that info. Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

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Re: Quimical weapons

#10

Post by tigre » 19 Sep 2015, 12:55

Hello to all :D; something more..............................

LES ANIMAUX DANS LA GUERRE CHIMIQUE. [Animals in warfare by chemicals.] Abstract from "Revue Veterinaire," March, 1931, and June, 1934,
Veterinary General von Richter's study in Germany.

Tear gases affect animals less than men.

Suffocants require the use of animal masks. Gassed animals should be removed from the gassed area at a slow pace, and then kept warm, and allowed complete rest.

Vesicants cause death in 24 to 36 hours if the exposure is severe. Lighter cases usually recover in several weeks. Animals are particularly sensitive to eye burns. Full treatment is described in brief.

Sternulator chemicals have less effect on animals than on men. Heavy concentrations, however, have severe effects, which are produced in about 20 minutes. Removal from the immediate gassed area is ordinarily the only treatment necessary. Eyes may require special treatment.

The effect of other toxic agents is briefly described.

As regards general protection, the German authority recommends:

"careful selection of bivouac areas, covering the areas with cut grass, moss, double tentage, or impregnated tentage. Animals should be kept out of gassed areas; contaminated harness must be cleaned as soon as possible; chloride of lime, is used on contaminated ground. For individual protection little can be done. Masks afford a degree of protection, but good masks are not available". The author describes the type of masks desirable. He concludes with a brief discussion of dogs and pigeons in warfare by chemical agents.

Source: Periodical Articles – Catalog. RML Nº 57. September 1935.

Curious about the effectiveness of chemical protection in animals. Is there any data on that? Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
Attachments
image002.jpg
Two german soldiers with a mule wearing gas-masks-WWI 1916......................
http://rarehistoricalphotos.com
image002.jpg (29.15 KiB) Viewed 500 times
image004.jpg
German soldiers with dogs wearing gas-masks......................
http://newsfisher.io/article/JWQxH8RFpWm6WLRd9
image004.jpg (24.49 KiB) Viewed 500 times

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