Re an Aussie's opinion on German fighting

[Imad]

Hello

I was going through some reminiscences of Australian officers and enlisted men that fought in the Somme. Quite a few of them had a rather shabby opinion of the enemy's ability and enthusiasm to engage at close quarters.

While the Germans were obviously very good at dealing in industrialized death, viz. machine gun and artillery fire, more than a few of the AIF commented that when they (the Australians) closed in with bayonets, the "Huns" would immediately throw up their hands shouting "Kamerad!".

Just wondering what everyone's take is on this. If true, then does that mean the Kaiser's army didn't spend much time and energy on developing bayonet or hand-to-hand combat skills?

Thanks in advance.

[Sheldrake]

There is such as thing as "source bias," though hardly possible for a country who pride themselves on their modesty shyness and self effacement.

There are some good reasons why veterans who survived a close assault might think the enemy was afraid of hand to hand combat. Those who lost will not be in a position to recall enemy ferocity, or if taken prisoner, might be choose not to recall the circumstances in which they surrendered.

In "Through German Eyes" Christopher Duffy collected German accounts of the British and Imperial forces. The Germans regarded the Australians as havign virtually no discipline and based on the evidence of interrogations of prisoners taken at Fromelles officered by men inferior in every way to British officers. Australian officer prisoners from Fromelles would say that betraying military secrets would be against their honour - but then freely explain the dispositions and orders for the Fromelles attack. But this too may be a reflection of the state of training of the 5th Australian Division in July 1916, and unrepresentative of other Australian forces at other times.

[Sheldrake]

There is such as thing as "source bias," though hardly possible for a country who pride themselves on their modesty shyness and self effacement.

There are some good reasons why veterans who survived a close assault might think the enemy was afraid of hand to hand combat. A disproportionate number of survivors will be from successful attacks when the enemy surrendered. Those fell in unsuccessful attacks or in successful German assaults who lost will not be in a position to recall enemy ferocity. Those taken prisoner, might choose not to recall the circumstances in which they surrendered.

An infantry assault is, almost by definition a determination by one side to close to hand to hand combat. It was rare for assaults to result in actual hand to hand fighting. Either the attack would falter and go to ground or the defender would flee or surrender. German defensive doctrine and First World War practice included counter storms and counter attacks. German troops were trained in bayonet fighting and equipped their troops with a range of trench fighting weapons with a sharpened spade favoured by many. At least some Germans had to be willing to close to hand to hand combat. On an individual basis a malnourished slight German city dweller might have reason not to wish to enter a bayonet fight with a well built aggressive colonial, but a successful assault was rarely one to one.

In "Through German Eyes" Christopher Duffy collected German accounts of the British and Imperial forces. The Germans regarded the Australians as having virtually no discipline and based on the evidence of interrogations of prisoners taken at Fromelles led by officers inferior in every way to British officers. Australian officer prisoners from Fromelles would say that betraying military secrets would be against their honour - but then freely explain the dispositions and orders for the Fromelles attack. But this may be a reflection of the state of training of the 5th Australian Division in July 1916, and unrepresentative of other Australian forces at other times.

[Imad]

Possibly but such accounts are quite consistent in both world wars and not just from Australian sources.

If a similar situation existed on the Allied side one would think German accounts would mention it.