Listing of pre-Civil War Spanish weapons and munitions stock

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Felix C
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Listing of pre-Civil War Spanish weapons and munitions stock

#1

Post by Felix C » 25 Jun 2013, 17:17

Is there a listing of the different arsenals and what stand of weapons, both individual and light and heavy crew served, were in inventory and also what quantity of ammunition was on hand? Also where munitions plants were located.

I refer to inside continental Spain but also Spanish Africa as well.

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Ironmachine
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Re: Listing of pre-Civil War Spanish weapons and munitions s

#2

Post by Ironmachine » 25 Jun 2013, 18:35

Just some numbers that can help you.

From http://www.elgrancapitan.org/foro/viewt ... 0&start=30, weapons available in Army units and depots in july 1936:
machine rifles: 1.334
81mm mortars: 298
machine-guns: 1.856
50mm mortars:1.680
In all the categories there were not enough weapons to cover the war TO&Es, and in machine rifles and 50mm mortars there were not enough even for the peace TO&Es.

For the artillery, there is this very good thread:
http://www.elgrancapitan.org/foro/viewt ... f=7&t=7975
Working through it, it would be possible to know the number of guns available at the eve of the SCW.

Regards.


Felix C
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Re: Listing of pre-Civil War Spanish weapons and munitions s

#3

Post by Felix C » 25 Jun 2013, 19:32

Thank you Iron Machine.

Copy of Historia Militar de la Guerra Civil, Gabriel Cardona, arrived last week and I am reading through the first few chapters and wondered if there was a scarcity of small arms and heavier weapons in the first few months of the war.

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Ironmachine
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Re: Listing of pre-Civil War Spanish weapons and munitions s

#4

Post by Ironmachine » 25 Jun 2013, 21:38

Yes, there was. The Army was lacking weapons in every category of its TO&Es, and was not ready for a massive mobilization. In the republican zone there was also the problem that weapons were given to militias and civilians who were not always willing to go to the front.
During the first weeks, there was also a shortage of ammunitions and military supplies. For example, Mola's forces had to stop offensive operations until the communication of both rebel zones was accomplished and he could be resupplied from the south.

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Re: Listing of pre-Civil War Spanish weapons and munitions s

#5

Post by Felix C » 25 Jun 2013, 21:54

Thank you very much as always.

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Ironmachine
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Re: Listing of pre-Civil War Spanish weapons and munitions s

#6

Post by Ironmachine » 26 Jun 2013, 07:52

...and wondered if there was a scarcity of small arms and heavier weapons in the first few months of the war.
In fact, it was not only a problem of the first few months. There was a shortage of weaponry in both sides for all of the war, though of course it was worse at the beginning. The republican mixed brigades could never reach their official TO&Es, and while the problem was probably less acute in the rebel side for a number of reasons they also had their own problems during all the war.
Regards.

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Leo Niehorster
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Re: Listing of pre-Civil War Spanish weapons and munitions s

#7

Post by Leo Niehorster » 26 Jun 2013, 09:04

Greetings,
Are the Spanish "peacetime" and/or "mobilized" T/O&E available?
Is there a listing? Archive(s)? Online?

Cheers
Leo
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Ironmachine
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Re: Listing of pre-Civil War Spanish weapons and munitions s

#8

Post by Ironmachine » 26 Jun 2013, 13:23

AFAIK, they are not available online. It would be necessary to search for each TO&E in the Diario Oficial del Ministerio de la Guerra.
However, there is this long thread in a Spanish forum with the organization of the pre-war Army that may help you:
http://www.elgrancapitan.org/foro/viewt ... =7&t=14211

Regards.

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Leo Niehorster
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Re: Listing of pre-Civil War Spanish weapons and munitions s

#9

Post by Leo Niehorster » 26 Jun 2013, 16:45

Great, I wade through it. My Spanish is pretty fluent, but the military technology is poor.
Any ideas on the where the "Diario ..." is (are) located, and how accessible?
Is there an index available?

Anyway, thanks for your prompt reply.
Leo
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Ironmachine
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Re: Listing of pre-Civil War Spanish weapons and munitions s

#10

Post by Ironmachine » 26 Jun 2013, 19:51

For the years 1931-1936 they are available online here:
http://bibliotecavirtualdefensa.es/BVMD ... &anyo=1936
Unfortunately, AFAIK there is no index available.
Regards.

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LWD
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Re: Listing of pre-Civil War Spanish weapons and munitions s

#11

Post by LWD » 26 Jun 2013, 22:33

Ironmachine wrote:...
machine rifles: 1.334
....
Were these light machine guns or something else?

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Leo Niehorster
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Re: Listing of pre-Civil War Spanish weapons and munitions s

#12

Post by Leo Niehorster » 27 Jun 2013, 07:38

Ironmachine wrote:For the years 1931-1936 they are available online here:
http://bibliotecavirtualdefensa.es/BVMD ... &anyo=1936
Unfortunately, AFAIK there is no index available.
Regards.
Thanks for that link. I have looked at the five initial PDF's and have seen absolutely nothing relating to tables of organization, just long lists, of people being promoted, paid, etc. Do T/O&E come later? At the loading rate this site operates, (if at all) it will take me the next years to look at them all.
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Ironmachine
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Re: Listing of pre-Civil War Spanish weapons and munitions s

#13

Post by Ironmachine » 27 Jun 2013, 08:27

LWD wrote:Were these light machine guns or something else?
Light machine-guns.

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Re: Listing of pre-Civil War Spanish weapons and munitions s

#14

Post by Felix C » 27 Jun 2013, 12:50

I think it is interesting the Army of Africa had the same quality of weapons that the continental army did. In the 19th century colonial forces were not equipped with the best weapons compared to their european masters. I suppose the military situation in the 1920s necessitated arming African colonial troops with better weapons than otherwise.

As a somewhat separate subject and based on the USA still having 1861-1865 Civil War muzzle loaders inventoried in the 1940s, I wonder if any of the excellent Remington Rolling Block single shot breech loading black powder rifles in .43 Spanish were still in storage and used. They were still being used in Mexico and LATAM at this time.

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Ironmachine
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Re: Listing of pre-Civil War Spanish weapons and munitions s

#15

Post by Ironmachine » 27 Jun 2013, 13:03

Leo Niehorster wrote:Thanks for that link. I have looked at the five initial PDF's and have seen absolutely nothing relating to tables of organization, just long lists, of people being promoted, paid, etc. Do T/O&E come later? At the loading rate this site operates, (if at all) it will take me the next years to look at them all.
The Diario does contain information about ORBATs and TO&Es, but I can't say if the "plantillas" themselves were published in it or whether, if published, they are available online.
Regards.

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