http://fly.historicwings.com/2012/11/yankee-squadron/:Tinker was officially credited with 8 air-to-air victories, though he recorded 19 kills in his own flight records, making him the leading ace of the Yankee Squadron. In the war, he logged just 191.3 hours of flight time. The Republicans refused to credit his kills not because they were unverifiable, but because then they did not have to pay the $1,000 bonus per downed plane. They did the same with all of the American pilots. Among Tinker’s kills was the first Messerschmidt Bf 109 downed by an American — in fact, he shot down two of this new and advanced type, just four days apart from each other.
Yankee Squadron: Tinker's Aircraft
- Maxschnauzer
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Yankee Squadron: Tinker's Aircraft
Does anyone have any photos of these two aircraft flown by Frank Glasgow Tinker (aka “Francisco Gomez Trejo”) of the short-lived Yankee Squadron?
- Attachments
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- Frank Tinker’s I-16 Mosca monoplane fighter
- HighFlight-YankeeSquadron6-300x141.jpg (10.3 KiB) Viewed 1582 times
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- Frank Tinker’s I-15 Chato biplane fighter
- HighFlight-YankeeSquadron5-300x166.jpg (12.18 KiB) Viewed 1582 times
Cheers,
Max
Max
Re: Yankee Squadron: Tinker's Aircraft
If I remember correctly, there is some controversy on Tinker´s claims regarding Bf 109. IIRC, this is probably due to his dates and locations of air victories, which do not match with Legion Condor records. But this kind of date and location errors are quite common. Let´s just say that it is probable that he shot down one or two "Messers". If You have the dates and locations of Tinker´s air victories, I can compare them with Legion Condor´s loss records. Unfortunately I have not loss records of Aviación Nacional and Aviazione Legionaria.
Of the planes above I´m not sure if Tinker flew I-16 type 10 (seen above). He returned to USA in 1937 and AFAIK, the "Supermoscas" (type 10) arrived to Spain in 1938. So his I-16 should be I-16 type 5 (which had machineguns only on the wings, not mounted on the nose).
Of the planes above I´m not sure if Tinker flew I-16 type 10 (seen above). He returned to USA in 1937 and AFAIK, the "Supermoscas" (type 10) arrived to Spain in 1938. So his I-16 should be I-16 type 5 (which had machineguns only on the wings, not mounted on the nose).
Re: Yankee Squadron: Tinker's Aircraft
Hello All;
Here are three photos taken, the first of Tinker in his I-15, the second, from
Some Still Live, posing in front of the tail, and the last with Harold 'Whitey' Dahl,
'Chang' Selles, and Tinker, posing with three Spanish Mechanics at the field
with an I-15 in the background.
Respectfully ;
Paul R. Ward
[img] [/img]
Here are three photos taken, the first of Tinker in his I-15, the second, from
Some Still Live, posing in front of the tail, and the last with Harold 'Whitey' Dahl,
'Chang' Selles, and Tinker, posing with three Spanish Mechanics at the field
with an I-15 in the background.
Respectfully ;
Paul R. Ward
[img] [/img]
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- Maxschnauzer
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Re: Yankee Squadron: Tinker's Aircraft
Hello durb,durb wrote:If I remember correctly, there is some controversy on Tinker´s claims regarding Bf 109. IIRC, this is probably due to his dates and locations of air victories, which do not match with Legion Condor records. But this kind of date and location errors are quite common. Let´s just say that it is probable that he shot down one or two "Messers". If You have the dates and locations of Tinker´s air victories, I can compare them with Legion Condor´s loss records. Unfortunately I have not loss records of Aviación Nacional and Aviazione Legionaria.
Of the planes above I´m not sure if Tinker flew I-16 type 10 (seen above). He returned to USA in 1937 and AFAIK, the "Supermoscas" (type 10) arrived to Spain in 1938. So his I-16 should be I-16 type 5 (which had machineguns only on the wings, not mounted on the nose).
Thanks for your information. Yes, kill claims were often inflated by one side and disputed on the other. According to http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/us_tinker.htm
On 3 May, he was transferred to the 1. Escuadrilla de Moscas led by the Russian Ivan Lakeev and equipped with Polikarpov I-16s...On 13 July Tinker became the first American to destroy a Bf 109 when he claimed one in the Madrid area.
His second Bf 109 was claimed on 17 July during an escort mission in the Madrid area.
Claims:
Kill no. Date Time Number Type Result Plane type Serial no. Locality Unit
1937
1 14/03/37 1 CR.32 Destroyed I-15 CA-056 Guadalajara area 1a/16
2 20/03/37 afternoon 1 CR.32 (a) Destroyed I-15 CA-056 Guadalajara area 1a/16
3 17/04/37 1 He 51 Destroyed I-15 CA-058 Teruel area 1a/16
4 02/06/37 1 CR.32 Destroyed I-16 CM-070 Segovia Escuadrilla Lakeev
5 16/06/37 1 CR.32 Destroyed I-16 CM-023 Huesca area Escuadrilla Lakeev
6 13/07/37 1 Bf 109 Destroyed I-16 CM-023 Madrid area Escuadrilla Lakeev
7 17/07/37 1 Bf 109 Destroyed I-16 CM-023 Madrid area Escuadrilla Lakeev
8 18/07/37 1 CR.32 Destroyed I-16 CM-023 Madrid area Escuadrilla Lakeev
I'd appreciate your comments on the claimed Bf 109 kills. Also note that this source also says
While patrolling the Teruel front on 17 April, Tinker (CA-058) claimed a He 51 from the Condor Legion.
It seems that no Condor Legion pilot was killed on this day.
Last edited by Maxschnauzer on 30 Jul 2014, 03:55, edited 2 times in total.
Cheers,
Max
Max
- Maxschnauzer
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Re: Yankee Squadron: Tinker's Aircraft
Hello Paul,paulrward wrote:Hello All;
Here are three photos taken, the first of Tinker in his I-15, the second, from
Some Still Live, posing in front of the tail, and the last with Harold 'Whitey' Dahl,
'Chang' Selles, and Tinker, posing with three Spanish Mechanics at the field
with an I-15 in the background.
Respectfully ;
Paul R. Ward
[img] [/img]
Thanks for the photos. They are what I was looking for.
Cheers,
Max
Max
Re: Yankee Squadron: Tinker's Aircraft
Here a comparison of some of Tinker´s claims and Legion Condor / Aviación Nacional (He 51) records:
Claims:
Kill no. Date Time Number Type Result Plane type Serial no. Locality Unit
3 17/04/37 1 He 51 Destroyed I-15 CA-058 Teruel area 1a/16:
On 17.4.1937 two He 51´s of Aviación Nacional (unit 2-E-2) were lost. One collided in air with I-15, and Juan Comas Borras (escuadrilla 3 de Chato grupo 26) damaged another which force-landed behind Nationalist lines and was written off. Legión Condor lost no He 51´s on 17.4.1937. In this case it looks that there is no match with Tinker´s claim.
6 13/07/37 1 Bf 109 Destroyed I-16 CM-023 Madrid area Escuadrilla Lakeev
Bf 109 B n:o 6-4 piloted by lieutnant Höness (2.J/88) was shot down over Brunete on 14.7.1937. Höness was killed. Robert Forsyth claims that this happened on 12.7.1937 near Villaverde (near Madrid as Brunete).
7 17/07/37 1 Bf 109 Destroyed I-16 CM-023 Madrid area Escuadrilla Lakeev
Bf 109 B n:o 6-14 piloted by NCO Haarbach (2.J/88) was shot down by I-16 on 18.7.1937. Haarbach managed to bail out.
So it might be that Tinker´s claims vs. Bf 109 are legitimate (date error margin is small), but my data (Laureau) is quite limited. The further verification of Tinker´s claims would also require knowlegde of the claims of other Republican pilots on those days in the same area. I checked my book on Spanish Republican Aces (Permuy Lopez) and found no matching claims there, but again the data is limited.
Sources used: Condor (Patrick Laurea); Aces of Legion Condor (Robert Forsyth) and Spanish Republican Aces (Rafael A Permuy Lopez).
Claims:
Kill no. Date Time Number Type Result Plane type Serial no. Locality Unit
3 17/04/37 1 He 51 Destroyed I-15 CA-058 Teruel area 1a/16:
On 17.4.1937 two He 51´s of Aviación Nacional (unit 2-E-2) were lost. One collided in air with I-15, and Juan Comas Borras (escuadrilla 3 de Chato grupo 26) damaged another which force-landed behind Nationalist lines and was written off. Legión Condor lost no He 51´s on 17.4.1937. In this case it looks that there is no match with Tinker´s claim.
6 13/07/37 1 Bf 109 Destroyed I-16 CM-023 Madrid area Escuadrilla Lakeev
Bf 109 B n:o 6-4 piloted by lieutnant Höness (2.J/88) was shot down over Brunete on 14.7.1937. Höness was killed. Robert Forsyth claims that this happened on 12.7.1937 near Villaverde (near Madrid as Brunete).
7 17/07/37 1 Bf 109 Destroyed I-16 CM-023 Madrid area Escuadrilla Lakeev
Bf 109 B n:o 6-14 piloted by NCO Haarbach (2.J/88) was shot down by I-16 on 18.7.1937. Haarbach managed to bail out.
So it might be that Tinker´s claims vs. Bf 109 are legitimate (date error margin is small), but my data (Laureau) is quite limited. The further verification of Tinker´s claims would also require knowlegde of the claims of other Republican pilots on those days in the same area. I checked my book on Spanish Republican Aces (Permuy Lopez) and found no matching claims there, but again the data is limited.
Sources used: Condor (Patrick Laurea); Aces of Legion Condor (Robert Forsyth) and Spanish Republican Aces (Rafael A Permuy Lopez).
- Maxschnauzer
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Re: Yankee Squadron: Tinker's Aircraft
That's very informative, durb. Thank you for your research.
Cheers,
Max
Max
- Ironmachine
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Re: Yankee Squadron: Tinker's Aircraft
Not a Bf-109, but AFAIK Tinker's claim of a CR.32 on 16 June 1937 is not correct, there were no losses for the Aviación Nacional during that combat.
- Maxschnauzer
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Re: Yankee Squadron: Tinker's Aircraft
Thank you for providing another piece of the puzzle, Ironmachine.
Cheers,
Max
Max
Re: Yankee Squadron: Tinker's Aircraft
Just checked the case of Guido Höness. It seems that there are other claims on him than the Tinker´s. Mikhail Maslov states, that Höness was shot down on 12.7.1937 (agreeing with Robert Forsyth when it comes to date). However Maslov believes, that Höness in his Bf 109 B was shot down and killed by a Soviet pilot, who most likely was Petr Burtym (?). The only thing which seems sure is that Höness was shot down by some I-16 pilot. Was he Tinker? Burtym? Someone else? - we will probably never know.
Source: The Polikapov I-15, I-16 and I-153 Aces (Mikhail Maslov).
Source: The Polikapov I-15, I-16 and I-153 Aces (Mikhail Maslov).