Kyushu Invasion Plans

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South
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Kyushu Invasion Plans

#1

Post by South » 27 Aug 2014, 10:04

Good morning all,

A question on the Kyushu invasion plans;

Has anything developed since John Ray Skates' book THE INVASION OF JAPAN, as to whether Soviet participation was to be allowed in the second stage of the invasion ?

Thanks in advance.

Warm regards,

Bob

steverodgers801
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Re: Kyushu Invasion Plans

#2

Post by steverodgers801 » 28 Aug 2014, 03:13

Im not sure, there is the fear of allowing the Soviets a zone in occupied Japan verses wanting them to take some of the casualties


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Re: Kyushu Invasion Plans

#3

Post by OpanaPointer » 28 Aug 2014, 03:34

South wrote:Good morning all,

A question on the Kyushu invasion plans;

Has anything developed since John Ray Skates' book THE INVASION OF JAPAN, as to whether Soviet participation was to be allowed in the second stage of the invasion ?

Thanks in advance.

Warm regards,

Bob
Hell to Pay: Operation Downfall and the Invasion of Japan, 1945-1947 Worth a look. I have it in a box somewhere (we moved last year and I'm still unpacking.)
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South
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Re: Kyushu Invasion Plans

#4

Post by South » 28 Aug 2014, 08:56

Good morning Opana Pointer,

Appreciate info and reference.

Thank you.

Warm regards,

Bob

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Re: Kyushu Invasion Plans

#5

Post by OpanaPointer » 09 Sep 2014, 14:40

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South
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Re: Kyushu Invasion Plans

#6

Post by South » 11 Sep 2014, 20:55

Good afternoon Opana Pointer,

Already obtained "answer" to my question re Soviet participation.

A couple of older veterans who work the ATO + CBI history said "No!".

The Soviet invasion of Manchuria started 8 August. As a minimal point,Truman did not want to dillute Soviet efforts in NE China. He was definitely not going to allow Moscow to have a pro forma presence in the invasion and thus a claim to participate in the occupation.

Appreciate your interest.

Warm regards,

Bob

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Re: Kyushu Invasion Plans

#7

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 16 Sep 2014, 22:04

As a footnote review the background for Operation Hula, and what was sent to the USSR in that effort.

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Re: Kyushu Invasion Plans

#8

Post by Mil-tech Bard » 22 Sep 2014, 04:32

According to P 212. of Weintraub's 1995 book "LAST GREAT VICTORY," on 24 July, 1995, during the first and only combined Chiefs of Staff meeting of all three major powers (also the only one in the war, but more would have occurred if the war went on) the Soviets asked whether the USA would be doing an invasion of Korea, and they were told "no," all assault shipping was going to Olympic.

The Soviets then requested a sea route through the Kuriles be opened. Adm. King responded that the USA could do a communication route, but he preferred to avoid engaging the Kurile chain itself directly.

USAAF General Arnold said B-29s on Okinawa could support Soviet ground ops North of port Arthur.

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Re: Kyushu Invasion Plans

#9

Post by OpanaPointer » 05 Oct 2014, 12:53

South wrote:Good morning all,

A question on the Kyushu invasion plans;

Has anything developed since John Ray Skates' book THE INVASION OF JAPAN, as to whether Soviet participation was to be allowed in the second stage of the invasion ?

Thanks in advance.

Warm regards,

Bob
MacArthur requested that the Soviets invade Hokkaido as a diversion for the Kyushu invasion. Marshall approved and passed the request along. From there USSR presence in Japan would have been a given.

This also puts to bed the idea that the bombs were dropped to avoid that state of affairs.
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Re: Kyushu Invasion Plans

#10

Post by glenn239 » 07 Oct 2014, 18:30

OpanaPointer wrote: MacArthur requested that the Soviets invade Hokkaido as a diversion for the Kyushu invasion. Marshall approved and passed the request along. From there USSR presence in Japan would have been a given.

This also puts to bed the idea that the bombs were dropped to avoid that state of affairs.
Indeed it does put that theory to bed.

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Re: Kyushu Invasion Plans

#11

Post by Mil-tech Bard » 08 Oct 2014, 02:47

>>MacArthur requested that the Soviets invade Hokkaido as a diversion for the Kyushu invasion.
>>Marshall approved and passed the request along. From there USSR presence in Japan would have been a given.

Source?

I have heard the tale before but I have never seen the actual message traffic cite.

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Re: Kyushu Invasion Plans

#12

Post by OpanaPointer » 08 Oct 2014, 12:24

Mil-tech Bard wrote:>>MacArthur requested that the Soviets invade Hokkaido as a diversion for the Kyushu invasion.
>>Marshall approved and passed the request along. From there USSR presence in Japan would have been a given.

Source?

I have heard the tale before but I have never seen the actual message traffic cite.
I'll have to work backwards, I read a dozen books in September. I remember checking the source's footnotes, they cited Marshall.
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Re: Kyushu Invasion Plans

#13

Post by OpanaPointer » 08 Oct 2014, 12:45

Ah, I remembered wrong.

From: Japan Subdued: The Atomic Bomb and the End of the War in the Pacific by Herbert Feis, pp. 13-14.

Quote:
Marshall in his exposition at the White House Conference of June 18th had stated that our aim should be to have the Russians and Chinese "clean up" the situation on the mainland of Asia; to get the Russians to deal with the the Japanese forces in Manchuria; and those in Korea also, if necessary. He thought the the Russian entry might so affect the already hopeless Japanese that it might be the decisve action in causing them to surrender "...at that time or shortly thereafter if we land in Japan."[12] He then quoted MacArthur as observing, "The hazard and loss [of the landing on Kyushu] will be greatly lessened if an attack is launched from Siberia sufficiently ahead of our target date to commit the enemy to major combat..."
[12] Freeman memo of talk with MacArthur in February 1945. See "The Entry of the Soviet Union into the War Against Japan: Military Plans, 1941-1945," cited in footnote 3.*

*Obviously, the link wasn't in Japan Subdued..
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Re: Kyushu Invasion Plans

#14

Post by Mil-tech Bard » 10 Oct 2014, 16:02

So,,,Herbert Feis is saying that Marshall was quoting MacArthur in the _18 June 1945_ meeting that decided the invasion of Japan, from a memo of something Mac supposedly said to Freeman in either Leyte or Luzon -- IIRC Freeman was a Colonel, and a Marshall aide de camp/Right hand man -- in a memo dated _February 1945_ about the Soviets being of assistance in distracting the Japanese during the invasion of Kyushu.

MacArthur was still planning to invade Java in April 1945 with US 8th Army and Australian ground forces if either the US Navy's Formosa invasion, or the more likely the Operation Longtom invasion of the Chinese coast were approved by the JCS.

Aside from the turn of the 19th to 20th century word choice in the quote, I'd chalk that Feis supposition up to the usual tall tales about MacArthur. That quote is definitely 'in the lane' for MacArthur's public speaking/writing style.

Be that as it may, the Diplomatic History crowd would hoot that tale right out of the discussion of "A-bomb Diplomacy"

...and I don't think it would be an unreasonable hooting, either.

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Re: Kyushu Invasion Plans

#15

Post by OpanaPointer » 10 Oct 2014, 18:56

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