This is an apolitical forum for discussions on the Axis nations, as well as the First and Second World Wars in general hosted by Marcus Wendel's Axis History Factbook in cooperation with Michael Miller's Axis Biographical Research and Christoph Awender's WW2 day by day.
gabriel pagliarani wrote:I am just avoiding this kind of off-roads: if you know the real meaning of authonomy, show me. It's too easy criticize other opinions without showing an equivalent theory. Tiornu: "DO UT DES", this was the core of the previous message to Takao.Tiornu wrote:...What is meant by "autonomy"?
About Sam's rule :
A glorious day during '20s Mars, the western goddess of war striked on USNavy HQ. Thus he broke the black cloudy mantle shadowing the minds of US Navy engineers with a shining revelation:
"..you'll produce a new class of battleships: Carriers! they must have an armored deck and every 400 tons of displaced water they will carry on a plane! Go on!.."
The astonished engineers tried to reply:
"..mylord, we'lldo it, but explain why a new class of vessels and why so strange rules...shall we see what kind of enemy we will face...
The goddess furiously replied:
"..shut up! You are a plenty of fucked asses and no one among you, bastards, must understand a comma abot such rules. 400tons/1 plane is the rule I gently give you. Try to investigate and you will loose at least a couple of wars during this century!"
In the meanwhile he appeared to japs telling them the same words. But japs told "yes" to any word Mars told them without querelling, they did so only because is their habit never counter-reply to any order. When Mars went away from Japan so happy about the enthusiastic reply of Japs, the Imperial War College was immediately re-assembled. Hiro Hito asked:
"..who was that funny boy with such a red mask?"
Yamamoto replied that Mars was the westen goddess of war. The Emperor got in a hurry then replied:
"..I am the shintoist goddess of war, not that fucked white greek ass! What the rule of westerns? 400 tons each plane? HALVED!! only 200! Because any samurai values at least as 2 americans I say that 200 tons displaced water per plane abroad is enough!Armored decks? Why? Planes will have 10 times more the reach of any bullet. No armors indeed?"
At the end of WW2 americans won, japs lost, nobody knows why. End. 8)
gabriel pagliarani wrote:Blah, blah, blah...ratios are numbers. Words and testhosterone spread out are not ratios. Sam H. ungently and unfairly told us the right rule about WW2 carrier water displacement without understanding a word about it. I'd like to know who, when, why fixed those rules. Or better: the problem is why 400 tons of displaced water per plane for US armoured Carriers, 200 only for not armoured Jap ones? ..will of Mars? There was a well defined strategical thought beyond such ratios, I guess.. Don't tell me it is a difficult matter, "experten" are Tiornu, Takao and Sam H.
I cannot quite catch what is the focus of this discussion, but I provide some informations from Japanese military buffs.
maisov wrote:I cannot quite catch what is the focus of this discussion, but I provide some informations from Japanese military buffs.
Tiornu wrote:"I know why a plane could fly or a gun could fire but I don't know why a US carrier had a doubled displacement respect with a Jap one. " Gabriel, if you have specific carriers in mind, I may be able to explain the use of tonnage for you.
- so how did heSo, even though Sam H’s “rule of thumb” is not perfect, it is the best around.
?Takao told you you were wrong without proving the contrary
maisov wrote:In general Japanese CVs converted from merchant ships had the engine problem; they could not gain the combat speed of the navy, at least for a long time without engine trouble. So only CV Junyo and Hiyo, with relatively better engines, could go with best carriers of Japanese navy.
Windward wrote:Considering their machinery could only produce 1/3 SHP of Zuikaku, and their speed could reach 25 knots, I must say that Junyo and Hiyo were splendid design. I know they had waterline shape of liners, not warships, but Kaiyo was lesser and had almost same shaft HP, and it could only reach 23 knots.
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