Women in combat roles /armed forces?

[Linoxilos]

In the following book there is a reference about russian female snipers.



ISBN-10: 1844153177
ISBN-13: 978-1844153176




ISBN: 9608721873
ISBN13: 9789608721876

[phylo_roadking]

Although never put to the test (obviously!), during the war the Swiss allowed some 25,000 women to train with firearms and join Home Guard and auxiliary units.

[Globalization41]

6/14/1939, Nine Female Secret Police Arrested in Madrid for 5,000 Executions During Civil War

Globalization41.

[ML59]

Which is the connection between that old article and the subject?

[ML59]

The only nation that officially allowed women to serve on the front line in combat roles was Soviet Union. Women were not drafted but were encouraged to volunteer, and in addition to the auxiliary roles usually reserved to them in most other armies (nurses, transmissions, clerks, cooks, drivers, air watchers etc) they served in tank units as drivers or mechanics, in special sniping units, in the air force in all-female light/medium or night bombers units.
In the Wehrmacht, since 1943, they were increasingly employed as Flak-helferin, together young boys from the HJ. In that role, even if close to their home, they participated in real war actions during many of the devastating bombing raids of the allied air forces. But they were not barracked, their employment was on a part-time basis.

[Globalization41]

"Which is the connection between that old article and the subject?" ... ... Before WWII, the Bolsheviks under Lenin and later Stalin were known to employ mass shootings and executions for intimidation purposes when consolidating power. ... Stalin supported the Republicans against Franco's Catholics during the Spanish Civil War with men and material. However, Stalin was more interested in liquidating anti-Stalinist opposition within the communist supporters fighting Franco while starting a diversionary war away from the Soviet Union. Meanwhile, the Soviets presented themselves as progressives regarding equality for women. ... It's possible Franco may have been fibbing about the female executioners, but the article does hint that Stalin was pro-women's lib. ... One of Stalin's female agents in Spain volunteered her son for Stalin's mission to assassinate the anti-Stalinist Bolshevik Trotsky, exiled in Mexico. The assassin completed his mission in 1940, was arrested in Mexico and sentenced to 20 years in prison, and upon release, welcomed in Cuba in 1960, then granted political asylum in Russia in 1961, and declared a hero of the Soviet Union.

1/21/1943, Soviet Women: Snipers, in the Army, Pilots, Parachute Nurses, Etc.

3/27/1943, Female Farmer Fights for Soviet Partisans

6/20/1943, Germans Hang Female Soviet Sniper

Globalization41.

[Ironmachine]

It's possible Franco may have been fibbing about the female executioners, but the article does hint that Stalin was pro-women's lib

I don't think that the fact some women may have been employed in police-like roles (and the article does not say what their exact role was) in another country may tell us anything about Stalin's opinión on women's liberation. Anyway, for what is worth, the EPR, in which the Soviets had certainly a considerable degree of influence, did not employ women in combat roles.

[Globalization41]

The original Bolsheviks preached women's lib to the max. Many women advanced under that system. Stalin was a little more prudish, but still promoted some women in keeping with the tradition of Lenin's revolution.

1/27/1937, Women Fighters of Spain, Rifles Replace Lipstick

6/10/1938; Women as Soldiers; Women Fought Early in Spanish Civil War, but Were Relieved by Male Volunteers from Around the World

The Spanish Civil War and Women of the Popular Front, 1936-1939

Globalization41.

[Karelia]

"14th Searchlight Battery (Finnish: 14. Valonheitinpatteri (14.Vh.Ptri)) was a Finnish anti-aircraft searchlight battery formed from women of the Lotta Svärd organization ("searchlight lottas", Finnish: valonheitinlotat) at the end of the Continuation War. The battery was formed to free men for other tasks and was used in the air-defence of Helsinki. The battery was the only armed unit in Finnish Army made up from women that was organized as a military unit fit for combat duty. The searchlight battery was operational from late summer 1944 to the end of the Continuation War but did not see action."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Searc ... Finland%29

http://www.kevos4.com/lotta_svard.htm

[Globalization41]

11/30/1939, Russian Troops, Planes, & Warships Launch Invasion of Finland, Red Army Pushes Across Finnish Border, Part 1

11/30/1939, Russian Troops, Planes, & Warships Launch Invasion of Finland, Red Army Pushes Across Finnish Border, Part 2

2/9/1940, Women of Finland, Many in Active Service

2/28/1940, Women of Finland, The Lotta Svard Corps.

3/7/1940, The Fight of Finland's Women

3/26/1944, House Approves Recognizing Women Airforce Service Pilots (WASPS) as Army Officers

Photo; Women Airforce Service Pilots at Lockbourne Army Air Field, Ohio

6/26/1950, N. Korean Troops Backed by Tanks & Artillery Swarm Across Border into S. Korea, May Be Invasion; 500 U.S. Troops in South

North Korean Military Parade

Photo, North Korean Military Women on the March

Globalization41.

[Ironmachine]

There is a new book about the Rani of Jhansi Regiment already mentioned in this thread:

Hildebrand lances several myths associated with the RJR. She notes, for example, that the regiment never numbered more than a few hundred women, rather than some thousands often found in accounts by Indian nationalists. In addition, and perhaps more importantly, she stresses that, despite their combat training, the women of the RJR were never committed to combat, nor even came near the front, their actual services, valuable to be sure, being confined to more traditional female roles, office work, nursing, and so forth.

http://www.strategypage.com/bookreviews/1702

[Stiltzkin]

Women were utilized in the rear or medical services/field hospitals as Flak personnel (such as in the defense of the Reich) or in the war industry. The Soviets called up more and more to compensate for the increasing manpower losses, however in a patriarchal system like the USSR, I have serious doubts that the stories of female snipers and pilots can be taken that seriously.
Remember: The USSR had to keep up the mask of righteousness. Using women on the front cover of units or seen on photographs was beneficial in keeping up the propagandistic image of the "Liberator" and not the tyrannical regime the Soviet Union actually represented.

I have yet to encounter any primary source material (especially in the form of combat reports) which would state that significant numbers of women were part of units (especially in the earlier phases of the war), or that the individuals in question featured in most stories, were really appointed to their respective role.
Pavlichenko is a good example: Supposedly "a high scoring sniper in the Battle of Stalingrad", shooting mostly "Romanians", yet there is no evidence of her ever partaking in the battles around Kletskaya or Serafimovich and by all means, those Sniper books are not exactly accurate either (the pun was not intentional). https://mashable.com/2016/07/30/soviet- ... jxSCvU_aq2

Now I am looked upon a little as a curiosity, a subject for newspaper headlines, for anecdotes. In the Soviet Union I am looked upon as a citizen, as a fighter, as a soldier for my country.

Or to be more precise: You are used as a propaganda instrument and America bought it.

Gentlemen, I am 25 years old and I have killed 309 fascist occupants by now. Don’t you think, gentlemen, that you have been hiding behind my back for too long?
Lyudmila Pavlichenko, speech in Chicago, 1942

Sepp Allenbergers or Hetzenauers reports may be a bit more transparent, e.g. they are not afraid of talking about incidents of cannibalism.

I have read about "female only" formations and single cases of AFV drivers (past 1943), Sokolov has mentioned the increase in number of women, albeit in a different context (their main job was to keep up the mood and prostitution was probably one of the ways to achieve that). In an army in which rape incidents were so high, do you really think women would have had a place amongst male fighters?

There are contemporary examples of women in various roles, in professional armies (IDF, American), or resistence fighters such as Peshmerga/Kurds or South American insurgents and one might argue that information could be scarce due to the impact on the "fragility of the fighters pride", being defeated by a woman would be disgraceful.

We have to strictly divide fiction from reality, I am by all means no expert on this topic, it would be great if someone more knowledgeable could shed some light on this issue.
And asking Russians is no option either, since heroism is still on the agenda.
Häyhä, high scoring Panzer Aces, female Snipers with over 300 kills... we have to take it with a grain of salt.

The German Army was short of manpower and are there any stories of women at the front lines (in desperate times, e.g. such as Operation Bagration) available?
I have talked to eyewitnesses, so first hand information of WW2 survivors, who mentioned that (Soviet) women were used in penal battalions or as rear guards. They used to shoot straight into columns of POWs (often intoxicated).

One thing is for certain: The Soviets were masters of deception and propaganda, one of the reasons why they were able to achieve victory, was the ability to obscure and hide their crimes, something (the very primitive nature) of Nazi propagnda rarely achieved.

[jesk]

In Hungary, I read, there were rape cases by Soviet female soldiers. They brutally beat men who refused to fulfill their desires (almost a quote).

[David Thompson]

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[jesk]

The source was later corrected. Just like an article about a liberated American prisoner. The first thing he encountered was the offer of Soviet soldiers to take part in the gang rape of a Polish girl. In a later edition of the article, maybe a son or grandson, this episode was deleted.

Generations are changing, interest is waning. From 2001-2002, when I read, to the present, the number of articles on the Internet about Sudeten Germans has been reduced, perhaps by 80%. Negative is also not relevant, so all this disappears.