How many troops did a Division have?

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nebelwerferXXX
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How many troops did a Division have ?

#16

Post by nebelwerferXXX » 12 Oct 2013, 06:23

Sheldrake wrote:What is your interest ? Are you a historian or a war gamer ?

When you mean a division do you mean a division as per establishment tables ? Or with the attachments that might be routinely attached in some armies ? e.g. an armoured a car unit to a British armoured division in NW Europe, tank and artillery battalions to US formations ?

When you talk about numbers do you mean:

Established strength ? The number that in theory a division should have, on paper. But sometimes these did not bear much relation to reality. Missing equipment or units.

Ration strength ? The number of people fed =- including the sick and non military manpower (e.g. hiwi), plus soldiers attached from other organizations.

Actual strength ? All men part of the unit, including those detached on leave and sick if expected to return in eight weeks - but not necessarily available for service.

Daily strength ? number of men present on a particular day, less soldiers on leave, courses etc.

Combat strength ? The number of soldiers in combat units ?

Front strength ? The number of men in combat units up front - infantry in rifle companies, tank crews, artillery observers ? This might only be C 2-3,000 men in a formation with a ration strength of 15,000.

A distinction in AFV numbers similarly might be between established, on strength and serviceable vehicles.

Oh and there is also a difference between those who are present and those present who take an active role in fighting. "how many fighting troops in this division" ? "about half of them !"

Nice analysis. I am a wide reader of World War II books.

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Christian Ankerstjerne
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Re: How many troops did a Division have?

#17

Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 12 Oct 2013, 22:22

This overview from Osprey MAA 311 gives a good idea of the amount of auxiliary forces for the early divisions.
  • Infantry division (16 977)
    • Infantry regiment (3049)
      • Infantry battalion (860)
        • Rifle company (201)
          • Rifle platoon (50)
            • Platoon staff
            • Mortar team
            • Rifle section (10)
            • Rifle section (10)
            • Rifle section (10)
            • Rifle section (10)
          • Rifle platoon (50)
          • Rifle platoon (50)
        • Rifle company (201)
        • Rifle company (201)
        • Machine gun company (190)
      • Infantry battalion (860)
      • Infantry battalion (860)
      • Infantry gun company (180)
      • Anti-tank company (170)
    • Infantry regiment (3049)
    • Infantry regiment (3049)
    • Artillery regiment
    • Reconnaissance battalion
    • Anti-tank battalion
    • Signals battalion
    • Divisional services
  • Motorized infantry division (14 319)
    • Motorized regiment
    • Motorized regiment
  • Mountain division (14 131)
    • Mountain regiment (6506)
    • Mountain regiment (6506)
  • Tank division (14 373)
    • Tank brigade
      • Tank regiment (1700)
      • Tank regiment (1700)
    • Motorized rifle brigade (4409)


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LWD
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Re: How many troops did a Division have?

#18

Post by LWD » 15 Oct 2013, 15:19

Then there's the question of whether or not to include attached organizations.

nebelwerferXXX
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Re: How many troops did a Division have?

#19

Post by nebelwerferXXX » 19 Oct 2013, 13:58

Christian Ankerstjerne wrote:This overview from Osprey MAA 311 gives a good idea of the amount of auxiliary forces for the early divisions.
  • Infantry division (16 977)
    • Infantry regiment (3049)
      • Infantry battalion (860)
        • Rifle company (201)
          • Rifle platoon (50)
            • Platoon staff
            • Mortar team
            • Rifle section (10)
            • Rifle section (10)
            • Rifle section (10)
            • Rifle section (10)
          • Rifle platoon (50)
          • Rifle platoon (50)
        • Rifle company (201)
        • Rifle company (201)
        • Machine gun company (190)
      • Infantry battalion (860)
      • Infantry battalion (860)
      • Infantry gun company (180)
      • Anti-tank company (170)
    • Infantry regiment (3049)
    • Infantry regiment (3049)
    • Artillery regiment
    • Reconnaissance battalion
    • Anti-tank battalion
    • Signals battalion
    • Divisional services
  • Motorized infantry division (14 319)
    • Motorized regiment
    • Motorized regiment
  • Mountain division (14 131)
    • Mountain regiment (6506)
    • Mountain regiment (6506)
  • Tank division (14 373)
    • Tank brigade
      • Tank regiment (1700)
      • Tank regiment (1700)
    • Motorized rifle brigade (4409)
Excellent !

nebelwerferXXX
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1944-U.S. Infantry Division

#20

Post by nebelwerferXXX » 22 Mar 2015, 07:02

us_infantry.jpg
An organization of a 1944- US infantry division.

Gary Kennedy
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Re: How many troops did a Division have?

#21

Post by Gary Kennedy » 22 Mar 2015, 16:14

Bit more detail can be found on that overview from this site -

http://www.100thww2.org/100org/100org.html

Gary

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Sheldrake
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Re: How many troops did a Division have?

#22

Post by Sheldrake » 23 Mar 2015, 10:31

I sometimes use some visualisations when I try to explain military units to battlefield visitors who have no prior knowledge.

A platoon 30-50 is about a coach load.
A Company is 3-4 coach loads.
A battalion is 10-20 coaches
A Regiment/ Brigade is 40-60 coach loads

Depending on your sport, a division is sports stadium's worth or a stand at a sports stadium. 15-20,000 is as many people as there are in , say the Kop at Anfield or one stand at Wembley stadium.

Corps are whole major stadia and Armies are cities.

steverodgers801
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Re: How many troops did a Division have?

#23

Post by steverodgers801 » 24 Mar 2015, 00:42

Division strength depended on the type of division and its mission. There was no set guideline of how many men a division would have and units would be added and subtracted depending on what it was to do.

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