Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

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Old_Fossil
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Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

#1

Post by Old_Fossil » 29 Aug 2014, 20:27

During the Second World War there were instances where countries overcame any reluctance to admit the enemy had a better idea and outright copied the other country's equipment. For instance the British copied the German "jerry can" and the Fallschirmjaeger jump suits. The Germans copied the Russian 120mm mortar. The Japanese copied the MI Garand. The US copied the V1 and the MG 42 (the later unsuccessfully). What other things did countries copy? I propose limiting the discussion to those things that were intended to be deployed and not just copied for research purposes. We need not limit it to exact copies. For instance the Panzerschreck is generally accepted as a copy of the bazooka despite it's differences in demensions and ignition system.
"If things were different, they wouldn't be the same."

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phylo_roadking
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Re: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

#2

Post by phylo_roadking » 29 Aug 2014, 21:30

De Havilland Mosquito....and the Me 210/410 :P
For instance the British copied the ... Fallschirmjaeger jump suits.
Really???
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BDV
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Re: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

#3

Post by BDV » 29 Aug 2014, 22:41

... and fared much better compared to that one time when they tried to copy the Zeppelin design.
Nobody expects the Fallschirm! Our chief weapon is surprise; surprise and fear; fear and surprise. Our 2 weapons are fear and surprise; and ruthless efficiency. Our *3* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency; and almost fanatical devotion

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Re: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

#4

Post by BDV » 29 Aug 2014, 22:43

... commandos, copied from the Boers?
Nobody expects the Fallschirm! Our chief weapon is surprise; surprise and fear; fear and surprise. Our 2 weapons are fear and surprise; and ruthless efficiency. Our *3* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency; and almost fanatical devotion

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Christian Ankerstjerne
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Re: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

#5

Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 29 Aug 2014, 23:02

The Germans largely copied the British Sten with the MP 3008. This was only fair, since the British copied the MP 28 with the Lanchester SMG, a predecessor to the Sten.

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Old_Fossil
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Re: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

#6

Post by Old_Fossil » 29 Aug 2014, 23:03

phylo_roadking wrote:De Havilland Mosquito....and the Me 210/410 :P
For instance the British copied the ... Fallschirmjaeger jump suits.
Really???
IIRC the British copied the "bone sack" taken from the Fallschirmjaegers captured in Holland in May, 1940. It later evolved into the Denison Smock. They were in a big hurry to develop their own airborne force.
"If things were different, they wouldn't be the same."

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Re: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

#7

Post by phylo_roadking » 29 Aug 2014, 23:35

Copying the FJ's "knochensack" resulted in a first, similar temporary-expedient smock in khaki-drill...you stepped into it, put ypur feet into the integral half-legs just like the FJ smock, then pulled the whole thing up and fastened it...

The Denison was designed as an alternative to the FJ and FJ-inspired "union suit" pattern - it came down over the head...and didn't have the legs! :lol: making it the British Army's first identifiable modern "combat jacket". They didn't hurry it - OR the development of the airborne force itself - they actually took their time to design it - two years from 1940 to issue in 1942.
Twenty years ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs....
Lord, please keep Kevin Bacon alive...

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Re: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

#8

Post by amcl » 30 Aug 2014, 03:22

Christian Ankerstjerne wrote:The Germans largely copied the British Sten with the MP 3008. This was only fair, since the British copied the MP 28 with the Lanchester SMG, a predecessor to the Sten.
The Lanchester wasn't a predecessor to the Sten in any normal sense. Turpin is described as taking the Lanchester and following St Exupery's advice so that perfection (insofar as the Mk 1 Sten gun could be called perfect) was achieved when there was nothing left to take away or simplify. For the relationship between the Lanchester and the MP28, chapter 6 of Clarke's Arming the British Home Guard - available free here: https://dspace.lib.cranfield.ac.uk/handle/1826/6164 - is worth a read. (So's the rest of it, and it's free). So, a copy; a copy of a copy; a copy with added copy of a copy bits? The second or third of those theories explain some of the Lanchester's peculiarities better than anything else I've seen.

Angus

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Re: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

#9

Post by amcl » 30 Aug 2014, 03:24

BDV wrote:... commandos, copied from the Boers?
Well, the name was. But the idea? It always seemed rather like trench-raiding parties writ large. [Edit: Especially given Churchill's "butcher and bolt" characterisation.]

Cheers,

Angus

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