Help with Russian term/phrase please
Help with Russian term/phrase please
On strength returns for Russian units from the First World War there is a column entitled "въ командахъ".
I tried running it through Google translate and got something like "on teams". I couldn't make out the sense. The numbers in this column are often quite large-- 2-3000 for a division.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Pablo
I tried running it through Google translate and got something like "on teams". I couldn't make out the sense. The numbers in this column are often quite large-- 2-3000 for a division.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Pablo
Re: Help with Russian term/phrase please
It might mean specialized detachments (squad to company size, rare of battalion size) like pioneers, medics, machine-gun crews, scouts, etc.
Re: Help with Russian term/phrase please
I'm not an expert but probably it means "on an errand" or "detached for special duty" (for example, construction or other works).
Re: Help with Russian term/phrase please
these words are torn out of the context...it will be easier to understand what it means looking at this paper..
Re: Help with Russian term/phrase please
Hello,
Thanks for the help. Not really any context to speak of other than what I mentioned above. The term "въ командахъ" is a column heading on strength return reports for Russian units during the Great War.
I've attached a screenshot. Many thanks.
Thanks for the help. Not really any context to speak of other than what I mentioned above. The term "въ командахъ" is a column heading on strength return reports for Russian units during the Great War.
I've attached a screenshot. Many thanks.
Re: Help with Russian term/phrase please
Hi Pablo,
the left part of this column with the header "Штыковъ" (Sch[sh]tikow) reads "in front companies" the right "in commands". I assume that this are the men of the headquarter companies.
I found two officers with the name Shtikow but don´t know if they have anything to do with this report.
https://tinyurl.com/oqgprm2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terentii_Shtykov
I don´t speak Russian just used the wiki site about cyrillic to transcript the text, Valpatrak will sure be able to tell you axactly what´s it about.
the left part of this column with the header "Штыковъ" (Sch[sh]tikow) reads "in front companies" the right "in commands". I assume that this are the men of the headquarter companies.
I found two officers with the name Shtikow but don´t know if they have anything to do with this report.
https://tinyurl.com/oqgprm2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terentii_Shtykov
I don´t speak Russian just used the wiki site about cyrillic to transcript the text, Valpatrak will sure be able to tell you axactly what´s it about.
Re: Help with Russian term/phrase please
Штыковъ means bayonets, so it's really a count of soldiers.
Re: Help with Russian term/phrase please
Hey guys,
Thanks so much for the input and help. I wonder about the idea of HQ troops, it seems to be a very high percentage. I wonder about the idea of them being troops assigned to MG and specialty unit? Or could they be replacements at the division? Again the numer seems very high
I do have an example of a text with a Russian division having 1800 " extra" troops.
Again, really appreciate any help!
Pablo
Thanks so much for the input and help. I wonder about the idea of HQ troops, it seems to be a very high percentage. I wonder about the idea of them being troops assigned to MG and specialty unit? Or could they be replacements at the division? Again the numer seems very high
I do have an example of a text with a Russian division having 1800 " extra" troops.
Again, really appreciate any help!
Pablo
Re: Help with Russian term/phrase please
It's not HQ for sure. Too big as you already noticed.
Also your example seems to be missing divisional artillery?
That would be combat (строевых) and non-combat (нестроевых) troops. But I don't think "нестроевых" is the same as "въ командахъ".I do have an example of a text with a Russian division having 1800 " extra" troops.
Also your example seems to be missing divisional artillery?
Re: Help with Russian term/phrase please
Hello,That would be combat (строевых) and non-combat (нестроевых) troops. But I don't think "нестроевых" is the same as "въ командахъ".
Also your example seems to be missing divisional artillery?
The listing (in text) for the 61st Division I mentioned is like this:
16 battalions, 291 officers (184 of them warrant officers), 14 208 bayonets,
4 740 auxiliary personnel,
1 460 additional men,
48 machine guns
36 guns
Yes, the divisional artillery is cut off from my example-I was just trying to make it small enough to upload here.
Re: Help with Russian term/phrase please
As Russian Brokhaus-Efron encyclopedia,1895,explains this term- "командами называют также небольшие военные административные единицы,имеющие специальный состав чинов или специальное назначение,или временно формируемые для каких-либо надобностей.."
So,Greg Singh is right,that these are some detachments for special ,or temporary purposes.
So,Greg Singh is right,that these are some detachments for special ,or temporary purposes.
Re: Help with Russian term/phrase please
Standard organization of the infantry regiment in 1914 included a machine gun and signal parties/teams:pablo287 wrote:I wonder about the idea of them being troops assigned to MG and specialty unit?
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 1&t=161853
Later some other could be added. To give an example the Russian 217 Infantry Regiment after mobilization consisted of:
- staff with 7 officers, 3 officials and a priest
- regimental signal (communication) party with 13 dispatch riders, 21 wiremen and 4 cyclists
- regimental machine gun party - 8 Maxim MG, 2 officers and 88 enlisted men
- regimental scout party - 1 officer and 64 enlisted men
- service company - 2 officers and 240 enlisted
- divisional train platoon - 1 officer and 47 enlisted
- 4 battalions with 16 companies each of 2-3 officers and 240 enlisted men
On 28 November 1915 a cavalry scout party (1 officer, 7 NCOs and 50 privates) was formed. In 1917 a trench artillery party and two additional machine gun parties were formed. From:
http://vladregion.info/articles/formiro ... kogo-polka
400-450 men per regiment in signal, machine gun, scout and trench gun troops doesn't seem to be improbable in the later part of the war.
Re: Help with Russian term/phrase please
Thank you for the very informative post with a concrete example--very useful. I have to say I'm a bit surprised at the strength of most of the Russian divisions I've been looking at--I expected them to be lower in wake of the losses suffered during the summer fighting of 1916--most of them are really quite strong.Standard organization of the infantry regiment in 1914 included a machine gun and signal parties/teams:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=161853
Later some other could be added. To give an example the Russian 217 Infantry Regiment after mobilization consisted of:
- staff with 7 officers, 3 officials and a priest
- regimental signal (communication) party with 13 dispatch riders, 21 wiremen and 4 cyclists
- regimental machine gun party - 8 Maxim MG, 2 officers and 88 enlisted men
- regimental scout party - 1 officer and 64 enlisted men
- service company - 2 officers and 240 enlisted
- divisional train platoon - 1 officer and 47 enlisted
- 4 battalions with 16 companies each of 2-3 officers and 240 enlisted men
On 28 November 1915 a cavalry scout party (1 officer, 7 NCOs and 50 privates) was formed. In 1917 a trench artillery party and two additional machine gun parties were formed. From:
http://vladregion.info/articles/formiro ... kogo-polka
400-450 men per regiment in signal, machine gun, scout and trench gun troops doesn't seem to be improbable in the later part of the war.
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