Heinrich Schmelzer CCCG?

Discussions on all aspects of the SS and Polizei. Hosted by Andrey.
Post Reply
Bob U
Member
Posts: 64
Joined: 29 Mar 2008, 04:33

Heinrich Schmelzer CCCG?

#1

Post by Bob U » 31 Mar 2008, 23:22

According to Mr. Yerger's book Schmelzer has the Close Combat Clasp in Silver.
Yet according to a couple sites he has it in Gold.
Can I get a possitive answer?
Thanks in advance.

User avatar
Doktor Krollspell
Member
Posts: 941
Joined: 13 May 2005, 18:12
Location: Sweden

Re: Heinrich Schmelzer CCCG?

#2

Post by Doktor Krollspell » 02 Apr 2008, 06:47

Hello Bob!

SS-Hauptsturmführer and ELT Heinrich Schmelzer did recieve the Nahkampfspange in Gold as of 06.12.1943 according to Florian Berger's "Ritterkreuzträger mit Nahkampfspange in Gold" (2004).


Regards,

Krollspell


Bob U
Member
Posts: 64
Joined: 29 Mar 2008, 04:33

Re: Heinrich Schmelzer CCCG?

#3

Post by Bob U » 02 Apr 2008, 23:08

Thanku!
Krollspell

Bob U
Member
Posts: 64
Joined: 29 Mar 2008, 04:33

Re: Heinrich Schmelzer CCCG?

#4

Post by Bob U » 02 Apr 2008, 23:24

Krollspell
I went back to my Yerger German Cross in gold book and he has Schmelzer down as a bronz on that date.
Ive tried to contact Mr.Yerger but have not recieved a response as of yet.

User avatar
Doktor Krollspell
Member
Posts: 941
Joined: 13 May 2005, 18:12
Location: Sweden

Re: Heinrich Schmelzer CCCG?

#5

Post by Doktor Krollspell » 03 Apr 2008, 06:29

Hello again Bob!

Heinrich Schmelzer's Nahkampfspange in Gold with the award date of 06.12.1943 is also noted in Veit Scherzer's "Ritterkreuzträger 1939-1945" (2005).


Regards,

Krollspell

Bob U
Member
Posts: 64
Joined: 29 Mar 2008, 04:33

Re: Heinrich Schmelzer CCCG?

#6

Post by Bob U » 03 Apr 2008, 17:59

Thanku again!
Very unusual though,I did more searches and came across a Norwegian site that also claims he only recieved the silverCCC.

freddiefro
Member
Posts: 1378
Joined: 29 Jan 2008, 22:08
Location: Michigan, USA

Re: Heinrich Schmelzer CCCG?

#7

Post by freddiefro » 03 Apr 2008, 19:15

On a Personalakten dated 5. Feb. 1944 (Source: John P. Moore’s “Führerliste der Waffen-SS”), it shows Schmelzer as having received, “Nahkampfspange III.Stufe - verl. 6.12.43.” (Gold)

Fred
Attachments
schmelzer_heinrich - 6.JPG
schmelzer_heinrich - 6.JPG (75.15 KiB) Viewed 1887 times

Bob U
Member
Posts: 64
Joined: 29 Mar 2008, 04:33

Re: Heinrich Schmelzer CCCG?

#8

Post by Bob U » 06 Apr 2008, 03:04

Thanku Fred

User avatar
Bernd R
Member
Posts: 4637
Joined: 01 Feb 2006, 16:12
Location: Bavaria, Germany

Re: Heinrich Schmelzer CCCG?

#9

Post by Bernd R » 06 Apr 2008, 10:00

Hello Bob and all,

see the below result of the case we had in the ABR "awardholders/unit" sticky - stating that the interpretation of an NKiGold award is a mistake !
not counted:
Schmelzer, Heinrich, 06.12.1943 [?], SS-Hstuf., SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt. "DR" [stated in various sources as NKiG recipient ; not correct, see below]
00.00.1944 Nahkampfspange II. Stufe (Silber)
06.12.1943 Nahkampfspange I. Stufe (Bronze) (His Ritterkreuz recommendation erroneously gives “Nahkampfspange III. Stufe”, however, by his own account, he did not receive that highest grade of the award) [manuscript Miller]
This "manuscript Miller" result by my fellow Mod Michael Miller is based on the Yerger work.

Even the original "Personalakten" document sometimes is tricky and is to read in a context.
The correct interpretation here is, if I'm correct, that in the early days of awarding the Close Combat Clasp (autumn 1943) the clerks occassionally confused the "I, II., III. Stufe". Meaning that the first Clasp to award, the Bronze one was designated officially "I. Stufe" which was wrongly noted down then as "III. Stufe". So here.

So, the DKiG award + date, given by Scherzer and Berger has to be regarded as wrong.
Therefore I go with the Yerger result here until the proof of the contrary.

regards, Bernd

Bob U
Member
Posts: 64
Joined: 29 Mar 2008, 04:33

Re: Heinrich Schmelzer CCCG?

#10

Post by Bob U » 06 Apr 2008, 15:57

Thanku
Bernd!

Mark V.
Member
Posts: 1509
Joined: 22 Apr 2002, 21:50
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia

Re: Heinrich Schmelzer CCCG?

#11

Post by Mark V. » 08 Apr 2008, 16:44

not counted:
Schmelzer, Heinrich, 06.12.1943 [?], SS-Hstuf., SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt. "DR" [stated in various sources as NKiG recipient ; not correct, see below]
00.00.1944 Nahkampfspange II. Stufe (Silber)
06.12.1943 Nahkampfspange I. Stufe (Bronze) (His Ritterkreuz recommendation erroneously gives “Nahkampfspange III. Stufe”, however, by his own account, he did not receive that highest grade of the award) [manuscript Miller]
That's strange. Manfred Dörr lists him as a NKiG holder based on the following Schmelzer's statement at IMT from 1946:

"Ich gehörte als SS-Hauptsturmführer und Träger des Eichenlaubs zum Ritterkreuz, sowie Nahkampfspange in Gold bis zur Kapitulation der Waffen-SS an. [...]" (Dörr, 1996, p.60). 8O
"Ich gehörte als SS-Hauptsturmführer und Träger des Eichenlaubs zum Ritterkreuz, sowie Nahkampfspange in Gold bis zur Kapitulation der Waffen-SS an. [...]"

dito on page 95 in the 4th upgraded edition 2006 - as recipient in 1945
Dieter Zinke

User avatar
Doktor Krollspell
Member
Posts: 941
Joined: 13 May 2005, 18:12
Location: Sweden

Re: Heinrich Schmelzer CCCG?

#12

Post by Doktor Krollspell » 08 Apr 2008, 17:36

Hello again Gentlemen!

I guess that a date, or a number that once have been mis-interpretated could be repeated several times in different later sources but when it comes to the Schmelzer biography in Florian Berger's "Ritterkreuzträger mit Nahkampfspange in Gold" (2004) he (Berger) is quite specific in his text. While stating/claiming that Schmelzer had zuletz bis zu 70 Nahkampftage, Berger also writes on the fighting at the fighting at Kiew 1943 that...
Heinrich Schmelzer ging aus diesen efolgreichen Rückzugsgefechten nicht nur als Ritterkreuzträger, sondern auch als einer der ersten Inhaber der Nahkampfspange in Gold hervor. Bei Kiew - die Rote Armee trat hier mit 2,6 Mio. Mann und 2.400 Panzern zu Herbstoffensive über den Dnjepr an - hatte der 29jährige seinen bereits 50. Nahkampftag erreicht und somit als erst 26. Soldat und 10. Offizier das Unmögliche möglich gemacht. Mit 13. Jänner 1944 stieg der Kompaniechef zum Hauptsturmführer d.R. auf.
And later in France...
Da Hauptsturmführer Schmelzer auch an der Invasionsfront pausenlos im Fronteinsatz stand, kann man davon ausgehen, dass ihm zu diesem Zeitpunkt schon zwischen 60 und 70 Nahkampftage zu Buche standen!

Florian Berger lists several published books as well as Archives in Germany as sources.


Regards,

Krollspell

User avatar
Bernd R
Member
Posts: 4637
Joined: 01 Feb 2006, 16:12
Location: Bavaria, Germany

Re: Heinrich Schmelzer CCCG?

#13

Post by Bernd R » 09 Apr 2008, 18:49

Looks like a controversy.
And it's strange - two contradictory own accounts :roll: ?

What direct proofs are presented by Berger ?

The text is confusing. What does it mean ??
...seinen bereits 50. Nahkampftag erreicht und somit als erst 26. Soldat und 10. Offizier das Unmögliche möglich gemacht.
"...Unmögliche möglich gemacht." [reached the goal which seemed to be impossible]. And now ...?
This is description, not content.

If Dörr in his latest edition is saying "recipient in 1945" - does the Berger text mean Schmelzer did reach the requirements in 1943 and was awarded or and should have been awarded (what did take place in 1945 then). ??

Sorry, with the greatest respect to Mr. Berger, that's just not quite specific with regard to the essential point ; have to admit, I don't like this "fiction style" :cry:

Dörr generally is accepting as a confirmation / proof
- an award document
- an authentic photo

A passage from Weidinger's huge divisional history (statement / comrades accounts) would do it also. ??


regards, Bernd

PS : I might be wrong here and too much critical of Berger. Just want to come to a point of the question.

Bob U
Member
Posts: 64
Joined: 29 Mar 2008, 04:33

Re: Heinrich Schmelzer CCCG?

#14

Post by Bob U » 26 Apr 2008, 02:26

Just an update to those who R interested.
Mark Yerger got back to me and confirmed that Schmelzer did indeed get the Gold Clasp.
It will be mentioned in the upcoming Nordland book.

User avatar
Bernd R
Member
Posts: 4637
Joined: 01 Feb 2006, 16:12
Location: Bavaria, Germany

Re: Heinrich Schmelzer CCCG?

#15

Post by Bernd R » 27 Apr 2008, 17:22

Thanks Bob !
Good to hear that this is 100% clear now and there's no controversy of author's anymore.

Bernd

Post Reply

Return to “The Phil Nix SS & Polizei section”