SS-Standartenoberjunker Frans Johann Goedhart

[Hardigan]

Hello all ,

Does anyone have any info/pictures of the Dutch SS-Standartenoberjunker Frans Johann Goedhart of the SS-PzJäger ?


Frans Johann Goedhart
SS-Standartenoberjunker

* 20. 7. 1917 in Arnhem , Netherlands
+ 25. 2. 1996 in Lelystad , Netherlands

SS-Nr. : ?

W-SS (1. 9. '42)
4./SS-PzGrRgt. 48 "General Seyffardt" , 4.SS-Frw.PzGr.Brigade "Nederland" (7 '44)
SS-Junkerschule Bad Tölz (18.KJL)
SS-Pz.Jäg.Schule ('45)
SS-Gren.Div. "Nibelungen" ('45)


DKiG (according to a former student of 18.KJL Bad Tölz)
EK I
EK II


Thanks a lot

Hardigan

[Cees]

Here you go. Goedhart was (temporary) Geschützführer of a PAK in the 4./48, during the Russian offensive in March 1944. Together with Sturmmann J. de Haan (former Langemarck-Studium teacher), Rottenführer Van Tienen and Rottenführer Ten Boom, he managed to destroy fifteen Soviet tanks on one day. It is quite strange that he wasn't awarded the RK for this action, since it was comparable to Mooyman's achievement - he only got the EK I.

With all the best,

Cees

[Hardigan]

Thanks for this great info , Cees . Btw do you know when he recieved the EKI ?

[Cees]

You are most welcome. I don't know when he received the EK I., but I will ask a former colleague of Goedhart about it. There are also rumours that he earned the DKiG, but I don't have any proof for that. I can also add that Goedhart volunteered for the Waffen-SS on 1 September 1942, attended the 18. KJL in Tölz, and finally saw some service in "Nibelungen" ('Nie gelungen').

With all the best,

Cees

[Gastolli]

"Together with Sturmmann J. de Haan (former Langemarck-Studium teacher), Rottenführer Van Tienen and Rottenführer Ten Boom, he managed to destroy fifteen Soviet tanks on one day."

Is this his gun crew or are these 4 different gun-commanders (so that 4 PAK destroyed these 15 tanks), I just want to be sure... !?

Nethertheless, if you have no EK1 you CAN'T get an Ritterkreuz, you must have the EK1 already. I even have seen 2 or 3 Ritterkreuz-Vorschläge at the Bundesarchiv, there the Ritterkreuz was rejected because the soldier in question had received the EK1 just a few days before !

Oliver

[Hardigan]

Nethertheless, if you have no EK1 you CAN'T get an Ritterkreuz, you must have the EK1 already. I even have seen 2 or 3 Ritterkreuz-Vorschläge at the Bundesarchiv, there the Ritterkreuz was rejected because the soldier in question had received the EK1 just a few days before !

SS-Oscha. Heinrich Göttke received his EK I on 14.12 '44 and his RK on 17.12 '44 , SS-Ustuf. Mooymann EK II,EK I and RK in 1 month , SS-Obfhr. Deisenhofer received his EK II and EK I on the same day and SS-Hstuf. Pförtner was awarded his DKiG and RK on 22.11. '41 etc..

And as far as I can remember there was someone in das Heer who received the EK II,EK I and RK in one time (can't remember his name) so everything was possible those days.

[Gastolli]

Hm,

that's also true, off course.

I have checked my notes from BAMA, found the man in question:

RH 7 / 442
Recommendation from 20.08.1944 for the KC for

Generalmajor Bogislav Graf von Schwerin, Kdr. 207 Sicherungs-Division
(he got the German Cross in SILVER on 20.09.1943)

Because he had received his EK1 after the day of his "Ritterkreuztat", the recommendation was rejected.

But o.k., as you said, (nearly) everything was possible those days...

Oliver

[Cees]

"Together with Sturmmann J. de Haan (former Langemarck-Studium teacher), Rottenführer Van Tienen and Rottenführer Ten Boom, he managed to destroy fifteen Soviet tanks on one day."

Is this his gun crew or are these 4 different gun-commanders (so that 4 PAK destroyed these 15 tanks), I just want to be sure... !?

Nethertheless, if you have no EK1 you CAN'T get an Ritterkreuz, you must have the EK1 already. I even have seen 2 or 3 Ritterkreuz-Vorschläge at the Bundesarchiv, there the Ritterkreuz was rejected because the soldier in question had received the EK1 just a few days before !

Oliver

Hello Oliver,

It was his gun crew. There were two PAKs from the 4./48., when Leonid Govorov's forces attacked the Dutch positions near Lilienbach (Lilienwald), in March 1944. One was destroyed fairly soon after the storm broke loose, while the other one (Goedhart's) supposedly managed to knock down fifteen tanks. There are several comments to place though.

Although Goedhart received the credits for destroying these tanks, an eye-witness (4./48.) told me that Goedhart was not on the bridgehead during the fightings, and that Sturmmann De Haan was responsible for taking down the tanks. The same veteran also told me that he fired several Panzerfäuste, together with Ostuf. Hans Robert Jausz, on several tanks which were hit, but not destroyed yet.

Besides this, there were also some Sturmgeschütze from Panzerjäger-Abt. 54 operating on the bridgehead. A veteran told me that they were able to destroy several Russian tanks, as well. Then we also have the RK-Vorschlag from Oscha. Philipp Wild, which states that he was able to knock down fourteen tanks during the same events. Not taking in account the claims from artillery units, we see that there are several 'double claims', and it is very hard to know for sure who shot who.

Quite confusing, isn't it?

With all the best,

Cees

[Gastolli]

Hi Cees,

ah, I see the problem, it's very evident indeed !

Well, as official records you have just Philipp Wild's RK-Vorschlag ? The other "claimes" are based on Veteran's accounts ?

So you have at least to put an question mark behind Goedharts "15 tanks" in that case...

Cheers
Oliver

[Cees]

Hi Cees,

ah, I see the problem, it's very evident indeed !

Well, as official records you have just Philipp Wild's RK-Vorschlag ? The other "claimes" are based on Veteran's accounts ?

So you have at least to put an question mark behind Goedharts "15 tanks" in that case...

Cheers
Oliver

Hi Oliver,

Besides Wild's RK-Vorschlag, my sources are the KTB from "Nederland", Dutch (national-socialist) newspapers, and several veteran accounts. It is very hard to know for sure which sources are (entirely) correct.

With all the best,

Cees

[waffen-IDF]

B:5.11.21

Ustuf. SS-PzGren.AuE.Btl.11 4.45
SOJ. 17.KJL SS-Junker.Sch.Prag 12.44
Rottf. 4.(Pak)./Ss-PGR.48 7.44

Ustuf:20.4.45 SOJ:15.12.44