SS-Oberführer Dr. Herbert Scholz, Lieselotte “Lilo” Scholz, Kurt F. Ludwig
I have been doing research on espionage in the US prior to the US entry into WWII. I am interested in what happened to Dr. Herbert Scholz who was the German Secretary to the Ambassador (Herr Hans Luther) from 1936-1940 in Washington, DC.
Scholz was the number two person in the German Embassy in Washington under Ambassador Hans Luther, former head of the Reichsbank. Newspapers indicate Scholz was the Gestapo person in the embassy and he was a follower of Himmler and Heydrich. He later became consul at in Boston setting up an espionage network until they were deported out of the US at the start of WWII. He was appointed Consul to the Boston Consular office until deported in 1941 when all these offices were closed.
The internet seems to indicate that upon returning to Germany he was - promoted SS-Oberführer on 10.12.1944 (Hptm. d.R., II./Gren.Rgt. 110). He appears to have been a member of Sturm Battalion AOK 1 (October 1943). Maj Herbert Scholz (01/02/1944) and received the German Cross Gold (according to information on this web site). Internet sources indicate he was also in 1945: SS-Sturmbannführer (No. 308265); NSDAP (No. 2840674); Major of the security police; SS and police area leader into Norway and the Hague.
I am interested if information is available as follow: “that from 1945 on, the US had control of the Berlin Document Center, which was the repository for all SS, Gestapo and SD personnel files. In addition, CROWCASS (Central Registry of War Crimes and Security Suspects) files contained the names of suspected or wanted war criminals.” Is this information readily available.
I am not sure if the information above all refers to the same individual.
The Washington Post indicates he was arrested in 1946 hiding. I am interested in what happened to him during the war and after the war.
Also interested in what happened to his wife Liselotte "Lilo" Scholz, daughter of Nuremberg War criminal George von Schnitzler of the IG Farben Co. Lisellotte Scholz according to newspapers in the late 1930’s was a popular social guest in Washington and served as a connection to important people for her husband. One book from the time period indicates she was a favorite of Hitler in the early and mid 1930’s. This seems likely due to her fathers support of Hitler during that time period.
She made frequent trips back and forth to Germany by ship prior to 1941. A letter in the National Archives indicates she also spent time in London and was thought to have been a spy at that time. The Scholz family including children Manfred and Wilhelm all were deported to Portugal in 1941 when all the German Consol offices were closed.
National Archives has a letter indicating Lilo Scholz was the cousin of Kurt Friedrich Ludwig of that spy ring. I am also looking for what happened to Ludwig once he was release from Alcatraz following his conviction in 1942 for espionage. Ludwig was born in the US and moved back to Germany at a young age. Social Security index seems to indicate he may have gotten American social security and lists his death in Germany.
I tried to see the Ludwig files at the National Archives, but they are still classified and I am planning on doing a FOIA request for parts of them. I have seen the info on Ludwig on the internet.
Any information on Dr. Herbert Scholz, Lilo Scholz and Kurt Ludwig would be appreciated. Any German readers may have access to German papers or digital newspapers that could supply additional information.
Deutsche Übersetzung by Dieter Zinke, Forum Staff:
SS-Oberführer Dr. Herbert Scholz, Lisselotte "Lilo“ Scholz, Kurt F. Ludwig
Ich habe über Spionage in den US recherchiert, bevor die US in den Zweiten Weltkrieg eingetreten ist. Mich interessiert was mit Dr. Herbert Scholz geschah, der der deutsche Sekretär des dt. Botschafters Dr. Hans Luther in Washington von 1936-1940 war. Dr. Scholz war der zweite Mann in der Botschaft in Washington unter Botschafter Hans Luther, der wiederum ehemaliger Reichsbank-Präsident war.
Zeitungsmeldungen zufolge soll Scholz der Gestapo angehört haben als Gefolgsmann von Himmler und Heydrich in der Botschaft. Er wurde später Konsul in Boston, wo er ein Spionagenetz gründete, das bis zu seiner Ausweisung 1941 bei Eintritt der USA in den Zweiten Weltkrieg bestand.
Laut Internet wurde er nach Rückkehr nach Deutschland am 10.12.1944 zum zum SS-Oberführer befördert (zugleich Hptm. d.R., II./Gren.Rgt. 110). Er scheint, dass er auch Mitglied des Sturm Bataillons AOK 1 (Oktober 1943) gewesen ist. Laut dieser Website erfolgte die Beförderung zum Major am 01.02.1944e, ihm wurde das Deutsche Kreuz in Gold verliehen. Diese Internet-Quellen zeigen auch an, dass er 1945 noch SS-Sturmbannführer (SS-Nr. 308265, NSDAP-Nr. 2840674) und Major der Sicherheitspolizeiwurde; er diente beim SSPF in Norwegen und in Den Haag.
Ich bin an Informationen zu Folgendem interessiert, falls vorhanden: "ab 1945 hatten die USA das Berlin Document Center (BDC) unter ihrer Kontrolle, wo alle Personalakten von SS, Gestapo und SD verwahrt sind. Zusätzlich dazu CROWCASS (zentrales Register der Kriegsverbrecher und der Tatverdächtigen), diese enthalten Akten mit den Namen der mutmaßlichen bzw. noch gesuchten Kriegsverbrecher.“ Wie kommt man am schnellsten an diese Informationen ?
Ich bin nicht sicher, ob sich diese Informationen alle auf die gleiche Einzelperson beziehen.
Die Washington Post berichtet, dass er 1946 an einem unbekannten Ort festgehalten wurde. Ich bin daran interessiert an, was mit ihm während und nach dem Krieg geschah.
Mich interessiert auch, was mit seiner Frau Liselotte geschah; "Lilo" Scholz ist die Tochter von Georg von Schnitzler, der als Vorstandsmitglied der I.G. Farben in Nürnberg als Kriegsverbrecher angeklagt wurde. Lisellotte Scholz war Zeitungsmeldungen zufolge Ende der Dreißiger Jahre ein populärer Gast der High Society in Washington und stellte für ihren Ehemann die Kontakte zu den wichtigen Leuten, den VIPs, her. Ein zeitgenössisches Buch deutet an, dass Hitler sie in den frühen und mittleren Dreißiger Jahren gut gekannt und geschätzt hat, sicher, weil ihr Vater Hitler in dieser Zeit finanziell unterstützte.
Vor 1941 reiste sie häufiger per Schiff nach Deutschland und zurück. Ein in den National Archives verwahrter Brief belegt, dass sie sich auch in London aufhielt, möglicherweise mit Spionageauftrag. Die Scholz-Familie einschließlich der Kinder Manfred und Wilhelm wurde 1941 nach Portugal ausgewiesen, als alle deutschen Konsulate geschlossen wurden.
Nach Angaben der National Archives ist Lilo Scholz die Cousine von Kurt Friedrich Ludwig, der Mitglied dieses Spionagerings war. Mich interessiert nun auch, was mit Ludwig geschah, nachdem er aus dem Alcatraz entlassen wurde, in dem er seit 1942 wegen Spionage einsaß. Ludwig war in den USA geboren und kehrte in jungen Jahren nach Deutschland zurück. Sein Sozialversicherungindex scheint zu belegen, dass er in den USA versichert wa, und in Deutschland verstorben ist.
Ich habe versucht, die Ludwig-Akten in den National Archives einzusehen, aber sie werden noch nicht freigegeben, so dass ich einen FOIA-Antrag (offenbar für wissenschaftliche Zwecke) für Teile davo gestellt habe, nachdem Informationen, Ludwig betreffend, bereits im Internet zu sehen waren.
Alle denkbaren Informationen zu Dr. Herbert Scholz, Lilo Scholz und Kurt Ludwig sind herzlich willkommen. Alle deutschen Leser, die Zugang zu deutschen Dokumenten oder digitalen Medien haben, könnten ebenfalls zusätzliche Informationen beisteuern.
SS-Oberführer Dr. Herbert Scholz, Lieselotte “Lilo” Scholz,
Re: SS-Oberführer Dr. Herbert Scholz, Lieselotte “Lilo” Scho
Some new information on Dr. Herbert Wilhlem Scholz. I have found two listings that seem to be the same man, but have different ID numbers and listed as being part of two SS units. I have included most of the sources for the information. Any help in clarifying if these are the same individuals or different ones. (There is also a Dr. H. Scholz who was a doctor in Aushwitz concentration camp and captured by the Russians and Herbert Scholz who was a member of the 88 Infantry Div that received a German Cross of Gold).
Additionally I have found that Yale Un library has a number of letters concerning Scholz’ wife Liselotte and possible pictures.
Dr. Herbert Scholz
Listings for SS units
SS-Dal 1934
SS-Hess
Herbert Scholz (1934)
Staff RF-SS
Party number: 505.786
SS Number: 70.360
Colonel: 25.6.33
Lieutenant Colonel: 9.11.33
Standard Leader: 20.4.34
Source: http://www.geocities.com/ ~ orion47/SS-POLIZEI/SS-DAL1934_SS-Staf.html
Scholz, Herbert
Born: 1906 in Karlsruhe, Germany
SS-Colonel (No. 308 265)
NSDAP (No. 2840674),
Major of the police, SS
Police regional leader in Norway and Den Haag
1945: Police in Augsburg
Re: W-SS officer in Budapest tölgyfalombos ostromgyűrűjében
Another entry has:
Herbert Scholz,
dt. Consul in Boston (17.10.1933)
SS-sturmbannfuhrer
At the instigation of Himmler and Göring, Hitler is appointed in June 1933, the SS-Gruppenführer Josias zu Waldeck Pyrmont Erbprinz as Legation Counselor and Deputy Head of Department "Personalien der Höheren Beamten. there remain a year, not having the required qualifications.
He was replaced by the foreign policy advisor of the General Staff of the SS-Hess Standartenführer (SS-Hess banner leader) Herbert Scholz doctorate in law and economics and a member of the SD.
Time Magazine June 17, 1940 (Note second sentence)
As Consul in Boston, one of his first acts was to move his office from the dowdy building it then occupied in the business district, take over a handsome brick home on Beacon Hill, where he discreetly entertains Boston's Brahmin elect.
Pittsburg post Gazette June 19, 1941
Because national capital has changed a good many of its ideas, there probably will be few expressions of regret over his departure. Few years ago it would have been different story. Some anguished sighs would have been heard.
As a member of German embassy staff before he became consul in Boston, Herr Scholz was a great favorite with Washington society, especially with the ladies, many of whom though him “so handsome, so charming.” In those days only small number considered his “charm” studied, forced, his conduct calculating.
It must be admitted Dr. Scholz enjoyed position of supremacy, yet he was not the only German embassy attaché to achieve distinct social success. There were the Tannenbergs, for example. More invitations came to their letterbox than they possibly could accept. This is the same Dr. Tannenberg called post-haste to Sumner Well’s office a few days ago to receive curt Presidential notice that German consular attaches must evacuate by July 10.
NARA file; Archives file: Dr. Scholz
Scholz, Dr. Herbert W. - German Agent HQ-0650004414
Hungarian National Cartulary. Dr. Herbert Scholz German legation councilor honor KM ). 1944.03.07. 87. Boheman Erik Swedish külügyi vezértitkár honour KM ). 1944.03.07. 88.
From a Walter Winchell Article, Milwaukee Sentinel April 7, 1946:
This Scholz had been captured by Us Army intelligence…Who is Herr Docktor Scholz?...None other than the ex-Nazi consul at Boston for seven years…Tsvy undt tsvy make four,nein?...Yah! “
German translation by //babelfish:
Etwas neue Informationen über Dr. Herbert Wilhlem Scholz. Ich habe zwei Auflistungen gefunden, die scheinen, der gleiche Mann zu sein, aber verschiedene Identifikation-Zahlen und verzeichnet als seiend ein Teil von zwei SS-Maßeinheiten habe. Ich habe die meisten Quellen zu der Information miteingeschlossen. Irgendwelche helfen in der Klärung, wenn diese die gleichen Einzelpersonen oder die verschiedene sind. (Es gibt auch einen Dr. H. Scholz, der ein Doktor in einem Konzentrationslager war und einer, wer ein Mitglied der 88 Infanterie Div. war, die deutsches /Cross des Goldes empfing). Zusätzlich habe ich gefunden, dass Yale-UNO-Bibliothek einige Buchstaben hinsichtlich der Scholz Frau Liselotte und der möglichen Abbildungen hat.
Dr. Herbert Scholz Auflistungen
für SS-Maßeinheiten
SS-Dal 1934 SS-Hess
Herbert Scholz (1934)
Stab RF-SS
Parteizahl: 505.786 SS-Zahl: 70.360
Oberst: 25.6.33
Oberstleutnant: 9.11.33
Standardführer: 20.4.34
Quelle: http://www.geocities.com/ ~ orion47/SS-POLIZEI/SS-DAL1934_SS-Staf.html
Scholz, Herbert
Geboren: 1906
SS-Oberst (Nr. 308 265)
NSDAP (Nr. 2840674),
Major der Polizei, SS
regionaler Führer der Polizei in Norwegen und in der Höhle Haag
1945: Polizei in Augsburg
Betr.: W-SS Offizier in den Budapest tölgyfalombos ostromgyűrűjében
Eine andere Eintragung hat:
Herbert Scholz,
Papierlösekorotron. Konsul in Boston (17.10.1933)
SS-sturmbannfuhrer
Das Verhältnis zwischen den SS und dem Außenministerium zurück in den dreißiger Jahren, als von Neurath noch im Geschäft war.
An der Versuchung von Himmler und von Göring, wird Hilter im Juni 1933, der SS-Gruppenführer Josias Erbprinz zu Waldeck und Pyrmont als Gesandtschaft-Ratsmitglied und stellvertretender Leiter der Abteilung " ernannt; Personalien der Höheren Beamten. bleiben ein Jahr und nicht haben die erforderlichen Qualifikationen. Er wurde vom Außenpolitikberater des Generalstabs der SS - Hess Standartenführer (Führer) der Fahne SS-Hess Herbert Scholz Doktorats im Gesetz und in der Volkswirtschaft und des Mitgliedes vom SD ersetzt.
Quelle: Die Bewertung von bundersarchiv R58/242 (Archive?)
Zeitschrift Time 17. Juni 1940 (Satz der Anmerkung zweite)
“Betätigen Sie Relationen. Kurt Böhme ist zum Konsul in Boston behilflich. Kopf des Konsulats, das vermutlich seine Politik vorschreibt, ist ein Sechsfuß, stämmige, blonde junge NaziPersönlichkeit des öffentlichen Lebens, Dr. Herbert Scholz, angeblich ein damaliges Mitglied von Hitler' s-persönlicher Leibwächter. Er war für eine Weile erster Sekretär der deutschen Botschaft in Washington (verantwortlich für Presserelationen), dann des deutschen Konsuls in New Orleans, bevor er nach Boston 1938 ging.
Als Konsul in Boston, war eine seiner ersten Taten, sein Büro vom schlampigen Gebäude zu verschieben, das es dann im Geschäftsgebiet, übernimmt ein stattliches Ziegelsteinhaus auf Leuchtfeuer-Hügel besetzte, in dem er diskret Boston' unterhält; sBrahmin wählen.”
Quelle: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... z0muvd7KrY
Pittsburg-Pfosten Zeitung 19. Juni 1941
Dr. Herbert Scholz geht zurück nach Deutschland. Er ist einer von vielen gegebenes Gatter durch pres Roosevelts den Auftrag, der Konsulats- Personal für un-American Tätigkeit wegtreibt.
Weil nationale Hauptstadt ein gutes viele seiner Ideen geändert hat, gibt es vermutlich wenige Ausdrücke der Reue über seiner Abfahrt. Vor wenigen Jahren würde sie Ben-unterschiedliche Geschichte haben. Qualvolle Seufzer des Som würden gehört worden sein.
Da ein Mitglied des deutschen Botschaftstabes, bevor er Konsul in Boston wurde, Herr Scholz ein großer Liebling mit Washington-Gesellschaft, expecially mit den Damen war, viele von wem zwar er „so stattlich und so bezauberte.“ In diesen Tagen nur kleine Zahl betrachtete HS „Charme“ studiert, gezwungen, seins Führungsberechnung.
Es muss zugelassener Dr. Scholz genossene Position sein von der Vorherrschaft, noch war er nicht der einzige deutsche Botschaft-Attaché, zum des eindeutigen Sozialerfolgs zu erzielen. Es gab das Tannenbergs, z.B. Mehr Einladungen kamen zu ihrem letterbox, als sie vielleicht annehmen konnten. Dieses ist der gleiche Dr. Tannenberg angerufen post-haste zum Büro des Sumner vor Brunnens einigen Tagen, um knappe Präsidentennachricht zu empfangen, dass deutsche Konsulats- Attachés für den 10. Juli evakuieren müssen.
NARA-Akte; Bibliotheksdatei: Dr. Scholz Scholz, Dr. Herbert W. - deutsches Vertreter HQ-0650004414
Ungarische nationale Urkundentruhe. Gesandtschaft-Ratsmitgliedehre Kilometer des Dr. Herbert Scholz German). 1944.03.07. 87. Boheman Erik schwedische külügyi vezértitkár Ehre Kilometer). 1944.03.07. 88.
Von einem Artikel Walter-Winchel Milwaukee Sentinal 7. April 1946:
“In 1942 klagte unsere Regierung 30 Amerikaner an für angeblich sich engagieren in der Verschwörung eine Nazi-Regierungsform in den US zu gründen,…, welches in der ursprünglichen Anklage zweimal geändert wurde. Der Fall selbst war auf Versuch für sechs Monate, als der Vorsitzende Richter starb, ein Fehlversuch, resultierend… einigen Wochen das Justizministerium aufgeladen dass ein Mann durch den Namen des Edward-Jägers (der in Boston blieb), als der Profitmann für geheime Quellen vor vor des Th zu einigen Buchstaben, die in den Bundesanklagen… die Beklagten, einigen Wochen, verschobene ofr Entlassung genannt wurden. Die Gerechtigkeit Department setzte verschieben auf dem Boden entgegen, den es neue Bleiarten hatte. Wir erlernen jetzt, dass der Verfolger im Fall (John Rogge) nach Deutschland geflogen ist, um einen Dr. Herbert Scholz zu fragen.
Dieses Scholz war von uns Armeeintelligenz… gefangen genommen worden, wer Herr Doktor Scholz ist? … Bilden keine anders als den Ex-Nazi Konsul in Boston für sieben Jahre… das tsvy Tsvy undt vier, nein? … Yah! “
Quelle: http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 94,6460541
Additionally I have found that Yale Un library has a number of letters concerning Scholz’ wife Liselotte and possible pictures.
Dr. Herbert Scholz
Listings for SS units
SS-Dal 1934
SS-Hess
Herbert Scholz (1934)
Staff RF-SS
Party number: 505.786
SS Number: 70.360
Colonel: 25.6.33
Lieutenant Colonel: 9.11.33
Standard Leader: 20.4.34
Source: http://www.geocities.com/ ~ orion47/SS-POLIZEI/SS-DAL1934_SS-Staf.html
Scholz, Herbert
Born: 1906 in Karlsruhe, Germany
SS-Colonel (No. 308 265)
NSDAP (No. 2840674),
Major of the police, SS
Police regional leader in Norway and Den Haag
1945: Police in Augsburg
Re: W-SS officer in Budapest tölgyfalombos ostromgyűrűjében
Another entry has:
Herbert Scholz,
dt. Consul in Boston (17.10.1933)
SS-sturmbannfuhrer
The relationship between the SS and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs back in the 30s when von Neurath was still in business.
At the instigation of Himmler and Göring, Hitler is appointed in June 1933, the SS-Gruppenführer Josias zu Waldeck Pyrmont Erbprinz as Legation Counselor and Deputy Head of Department "Personalien der Höheren Beamten. there remain a year, not having the required qualifications.
He was replaced by the foreign policy advisor of the General Staff of the SS-Hess Standartenführer (SS-Hess banner leader) Herbert Scholz doctorate in law and economics and a member of the SD.
Source: The rating of bundersarchiv R58/242 (Archives ?)
Time Magazine June 17, 1940 (Note second sentence)
Press Relations. Kurt Bohme is assistant to the Consul in Boston. Head of the Consulate, who presumably dictates its policies, is a six-foot, hefty, blond young Nazi socialite, Dr. Herbert Scholz, reputedly a onetime member of Hitler's personal bodyguard. He was for a while first secretary of the German Embassy in Washington (in charge of press relations), then German Consul in New Orleans, before he went to Boston in 1938.
As Consul in Boston, one of his first acts was to move his office from the dowdy building it then occupied in the business district, take over a handsome brick home on Beacon Hill, where he discreetly entertains Boston's Brahmin elect.
Source: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... z0muvd7KrY
Pittsburg post Gazette June 19, 1941
Dr. Herbert Scholz is going back to Germany. He is one of many given gate by pres Roosevelt’s order expelling consular staffs for un-American activity.
Because national capital has changed a good many of its ideas, there probably will be few expressions of regret over his departure. Few years ago it would have been different story. Some anguished sighs would have been heard.
As a member of German embassy staff before he became consul in Boston, Herr Scholz was a great favorite with Washington society, especially with the ladies, many of whom though him “so handsome, so charming.” In those days only small number considered his “charm” studied, forced, his conduct calculating.
It must be admitted Dr. Scholz enjoyed position of supremacy, yet he was not the only German embassy attaché to achieve distinct social success. There were the Tannenbergs, for example. More invitations came to their letterbox than they possibly could accept. This is the same Dr. Tannenberg called post-haste to Sumner Well’s office a few days ago to receive curt Presidential notice that German consular attaches must evacuate by July 10.
NARA file; Archives file: Dr. Scholz
Scholz, Dr. Herbert W. - German Agent HQ-0650004414
Hungarian National Cartulary. Dr. Herbert Scholz German legation councilor honor KM ). 1944.03.07. 87. Boheman Erik Swedish külügyi vezértitkár honour KM ). 1944.03.07. 88.
From a Walter Winchell Article, Milwaukee Sentinel April 7, 1946:
“In 1942 our government indicted 30 Americans for allegedly engaging in conspiracy to set up a Nazi form of government in the US…The original indictment was changed twice. The case itself was on trial for six months when the presiding judge died, a mistrial resulting…Several weeks ago the Department of Justice charged that a man by the name of Edward Hunter (who dwelled in Boston) as the payoff man for the secret sources to a number of characters named in the federal indictments…The defendants, a few weeks ago, moved for dismissal. The Justice Department opposed the move on the grounds it had new leads. We now learn the prosecutor in the case (John Rogge) has flown to Germany to question one Dr. Herbert Scholz.
This Scholz had been captured by Us Army intelligence…Who is Herr Docktor Scholz?...None other than the ex-Nazi consul at Boston for seven years…Tsvy undt tsvy make four,nein?...Yah! “
Source: http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 94,6460541
German translation by //babelfish:
Etwas neue Informationen über Dr. Herbert Wilhlem Scholz. Ich habe zwei Auflistungen gefunden, die scheinen, der gleiche Mann zu sein, aber verschiedene Identifikation-Zahlen und verzeichnet als seiend ein Teil von zwei SS-Maßeinheiten habe. Ich habe die meisten Quellen zu der Information miteingeschlossen. Irgendwelche helfen in der Klärung, wenn diese die gleichen Einzelpersonen oder die verschiedene sind. (Es gibt auch einen Dr. H. Scholz, der ein Doktor in einem Konzentrationslager war und einer, wer ein Mitglied der 88 Infanterie Div. war, die deutsches /Cross des Goldes empfing). Zusätzlich habe ich gefunden, dass Yale-UNO-Bibliothek einige Buchstaben hinsichtlich der Scholz Frau Liselotte und der möglichen Abbildungen hat.
Dr. Herbert Scholz Auflistungen
für SS-Maßeinheiten
SS-Dal 1934 SS-Hess
Herbert Scholz (1934)
Stab RF-SS
Parteizahl: 505.786 SS-Zahl: 70.360
Oberst: 25.6.33
Oberstleutnant: 9.11.33
Standardführer: 20.4.34
Quelle: http://www.geocities.com/ ~ orion47/SS-POLIZEI/SS-DAL1934_SS-Staf.html
Scholz, Herbert
Geboren: 1906
SS-Oberst (Nr. 308 265)
NSDAP (Nr. 2840674),
Major der Polizei, SS
regionaler Führer der Polizei in Norwegen und in der Höhle Haag
1945: Polizei in Augsburg
Betr.: W-SS Offizier in den Budapest tölgyfalombos ostromgyűrűjében
Eine andere Eintragung hat:
Herbert Scholz,
Papierlösekorotron. Konsul in Boston (17.10.1933)
SS-sturmbannfuhrer
Das Verhältnis zwischen den SS und dem Außenministerium zurück in den dreißiger Jahren, als von Neurath noch im Geschäft war.
An der Versuchung von Himmler und von Göring, wird Hilter im Juni 1933, der SS-Gruppenführer Josias Erbprinz zu Waldeck und Pyrmont als Gesandtschaft-Ratsmitglied und stellvertretender Leiter der Abteilung " ernannt; Personalien der Höheren Beamten. bleiben ein Jahr und nicht haben die erforderlichen Qualifikationen. Er wurde vom Außenpolitikberater des Generalstabs der SS - Hess Standartenführer (Führer) der Fahne SS-Hess Herbert Scholz Doktorats im Gesetz und in der Volkswirtschaft und des Mitgliedes vom SD ersetzt.
Quelle: Die Bewertung von bundersarchiv R58/242 (Archive?)
Zeitschrift Time 17. Juni 1940 (Satz der Anmerkung zweite)
“Betätigen Sie Relationen. Kurt Böhme ist zum Konsul in Boston behilflich. Kopf des Konsulats, das vermutlich seine Politik vorschreibt, ist ein Sechsfuß, stämmige, blonde junge NaziPersönlichkeit des öffentlichen Lebens, Dr. Herbert Scholz, angeblich ein damaliges Mitglied von Hitler' s-persönlicher Leibwächter. Er war für eine Weile erster Sekretär der deutschen Botschaft in Washington (verantwortlich für Presserelationen), dann des deutschen Konsuls in New Orleans, bevor er nach Boston 1938 ging.
Als Konsul in Boston, war eine seiner ersten Taten, sein Büro vom schlampigen Gebäude zu verschieben, das es dann im Geschäftsgebiet, übernimmt ein stattliches Ziegelsteinhaus auf Leuchtfeuer-Hügel besetzte, in dem er diskret Boston' unterhält; sBrahmin wählen.”
Quelle: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... z0muvd7KrY
Pittsburg-Pfosten Zeitung 19. Juni 1941
Dr. Herbert Scholz geht zurück nach Deutschland. Er ist einer von vielen gegebenes Gatter durch pres Roosevelts den Auftrag, der Konsulats- Personal für un-American Tätigkeit wegtreibt.
Weil nationale Hauptstadt ein gutes viele seiner Ideen geändert hat, gibt es vermutlich wenige Ausdrücke der Reue über seiner Abfahrt. Vor wenigen Jahren würde sie Ben-unterschiedliche Geschichte haben. Qualvolle Seufzer des Som würden gehört worden sein.
Da ein Mitglied des deutschen Botschaftstabes, bevor er Konsul in Boston wurde, Herr Scholz ein großer Liebling mit Washington-Gesellschaft, expecially mit den Damen war, viele von wem zwar er „so stattlich und so bezauberte.“ In diesen Tagen nur kleine Zahl betrachtete HS „Charme“ studiert, gezwungen, seins Führungsberechnung.
Es muss zugelassener Dr. Scholz genossene Position sein von der Vorherrschaft, noch war er nicht der einzige deutsche Botschaft-Attaché, zum des eindeutigen Sozialerfolgs zu erzielen. Es gab das Tannenbergs, z.B. Mehr Einladungen kamen zu ihrem letterbox, als sie vielleicht annehmen konnten. Dieses ist der gleiche Dr. Tannenberg angerufen post-haste zum Büro des Sumner vor Brunnens einigen Tagen, um knappe Präsidentennachricht zu empfangen, dass deutsche Konsulats- Attachés für den 10. Juli evakuieren müssen.
NARA-Akte; Bibliotheksdatei: Dr. Scholz Scholz, Dr. Herbert W. - deutsches Vertreter HQ-0650004414
Ungarische nationale Urkundentruhe. Gesandtschaft-Ratsmitgliedehre Kilometer des Dr. Herbert Scholz German). 1944.03.07. 87. Boheman Erik schwedische külügyi vezértitkár Ehre Kilometer). 1944.03.07. 88.
Von einem Artikel Walter-Winchel Milwaukee Sentinal 7. April 1946:
“In 1942 klagte unsere Regierung 30 Amerikaner an für angeblich sich engagieren in der Verschwörung eine Nazi-Regierungsform in den US zu gründen,…, welches in der ursprünglichen Anklage zweimal geändert wurde. Der Fall selbst war auf Versuch für sechs Monate, als der Vorsitzende Richter starb, ein Fehlversuch, resultierend… einigen Wochen das Justizministerium aufgeladen dass ein Mann durch den Namen des Edward-Jägers (der in Boston blieb), als der Profitmann für geheime Quellen vor vor des Th zu einigen Buchstaben, die in den Bundesanklagen… die Beklagten, einigen Wochen, verschobene ofr Entlassung genannt wurden. Die Gerechtigkeit Department setzte verschieben auf dem Boden entgegen, den es neue Bleiarten hatte. Wir erlernen jetzt, dass der Verfolger im Fall (John Rogge) nach Deutschland geflogen ist, um einen Dr. Herbert Scholz zu fragen.
Dieses Scholz war von uns Armeeintelligenz… gefangen genommen worden, wer Herr Doktor Scholz ist? … Bilden keine anders als den Ex-Nazi Konsul in Boston für sieben Jahre… das tsvy Tsvy undt vier, nein? … Yah! “
Quelle: http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 94,6460541
-
Dieter Zinke
- In memoriam
- Posts: 9841
- Joined: 02 Dec 2003, 10:12
- Location: Koblenz / germany
Re: SS-Oberführer Dr. Herbert Scholz, Lieselotte “Lilo” Scho
I'm trying to translate your very substantial first post to german in plain language 
Who wants to do the second post to relieve myself from processing work ?
Dieter Z.
Who wants to do the second post to relieve myself from processing work ?
Dieter Z.
Re: SS-Oberführer Dr. Herbert Scholz, Lieselotte “Lilo” Scho
Dieter, Thank you for correcting the first post for better reading.
The computer translator does not always do a very good job going in either direction.
German to English has the right words but not the right order.
I know there is a lot information hopefully of assistance, one of the pit falls of clip and paste.
Danke.
The computer translator does not always do a very good job going in either direction.
German to English has the right words but not the right order.
I know there is a lot information hopefully of assistance, one of the pit falls of clip and paste.
Danke.
Re: SS-Oberführer Dr. Herbert Scholz, Lieselotte “Lilo” Scho
Internet indicates there may be a family history page on the German version of Ancestry.com for Herbert Scholz and Liselotte Scholz.
If any of our readers has access to the German version a quick check would be appreciated.
Herbert Scholz - Ancestry.de - [ Translate this page ]Name: Liselotte Scholz. Andere: Mr. Herbert Scholz. Geburt: Jahr - Ort. Ursprung: Ort. Weiter: Alle Informationen anzeigen. ...
Source: search.ancestry.de/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gl=allgs&gsfn...gsln...
If any of our readers has access to the German version a quick check would be appreciated.
Herbert Scholz - Ancestry.de - [ Translate this page ]Name: Liselotte Scholz. Andere: Mr. Herbert Scholz. Geburt: Jahr - Ort. Ursprung: Ort. Weiter: Alle Informationen anzeigen. ...
Source: search.ancestry.de/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gl=allgs&gsfn...gsln...
Re: SS-Oberführer Dr. Herbert Scholz, Lieselotte “Lilo” Scho
Hello Tatner,
I've the following, it's somewhat similar to the info you posted about Herbert Scholz but hopefully we can find out which info belongs together. Your thread got me curious as well.
Dr. Herbert Scholz: German diplomat.
Born on 29-1-1906.
Member NSDAP(nr. ??).
Member SS(nr. ??).
SS-Standartenführer.
Gesandtschaftrat and secretary from the German ambassador in Washinton D.C. between 1936 and 1940.
He was from ?? 1940 till ?? 1941 consul with the Boston Consulor Office and he was a representative from the Gestapo in the USA.
He also did set up an espionage-sabotage network along the Boston waterfront and in 1941 he had to leave the States as so many other Germans.
During WW-2 he was apparently working at the German consulate in Budapest and at the same time he apparently also was employed for the Gestapo.
On 10(mit wirkung von 21)December 1944 he got promoted to SS-Oberführer.
Herbert Scholz.
Member NSDAP(nr. 2.840.674).
Member SS(nr. 308.265).
SS-Sturmbannführer and Major der Schutzpolizei(Schupo).
He was SS- und Polizeigebietsführer in Norway and in The Netherlands.
After 1945 he was employed as Polizeidirektor in Augsburg.
Herbert Scholz.
Member NSDAP(nr. 505.786).
Member Allgemeine-SS(nr. 70.360).
He got promoted to SS-Sturmbannführer(Major and not Colonel)on 25-6-1933.
He got promoted to SS-Obersturmbannführer(Lieutenant Colonel)on 9-11-1933.
He got promoted to SS-Standartenführer(Colonel)on 20-4-1934.
He was employed within the Staff from the RF SS.
I think the third Herbert Scholz is identical to the first one, the second one appears to be a totally different one as the first and the third one.
Greetings, Mike
I've the following, it's somewhat similar to the info you posted about Herbert Scholz but hopefully we can find out which info belongs together. Your thread got me curious as well.
Dr. Herbert Scholz: German diplomat.
Born on 29-1-1906.
Member NSDAP(nr. ??).
Member SS(nr. ??).
SS-Standartenführer.
Gesandtschaftrat and secretary from the German ambassador in Washinton D.C. between 1936 and 1940.
He was from ?? 1940 till ?? 1941 consul with the Boston Consulor Office and he was a representative from the Gestapo in the USA.
He also did set up an espionage-sabotage network along the Boston waterfront and in 1941 he had to leave the States as so many other Germans.
During WW-2 he was apparently working at the German consulate in Budapest and at the same time he apparently also was employed for the Gestapo.
On 10(mit wirkung von 21)December 1944 he got promoted to SS-Oberführer.
Herbert Scholz.
Member NSDAP(nr. 2.840.674).
Member SS(nr. 308.265).
SS-Sturmbannführer and Major der Schutzpolizei(Schupo).
He was SS- und Polizeigebietsführer in Norway and in The Netherlands.
After 1945 he was employed as Polizeidirektor in Augsburg.
Herbert Scholz.
Member NSDAP(nr. 505.786).
Member Allgemeine-SS(nr. 70.360).
He got promoted to SS-Sturmbannführer(Major and not Colonel)on 25-6-1933.
He got promoted to SS-Obersturmbannführer(Lieutenant Colonel)on 9-11-1933.
He got promoted to SS-Standartenführer(Colonel)on 20-4-1934.
He was employed within the Staff from the RF SS.
I think the third Herbert Scholz is identical to the first one, the second one appears to be a totally different one as the first and the third one.
Greetings, Mike
Re: SS-Oberführer Dr. Herbert Scholz, Lieselotte “Lilo” Scho
Thank you Mike. Hopefully we can narrow information down for the Diplomat Dr. Herbert Scholz.
I include the following information on a Dr. Herbert Scholz who was apparentlycaptured by Russians. He was a physician according to the Bablefish translation of “Chefartz Dr. Herbert Scholz berichtet”
I read in some Google book summaries that the diplomat Scholz was a Dr. of Economics.
Below is the information and source on the physician Scholz for reference of other Herbert Scholz, although it may be a Holocaust denier’s site.
"Was die Unrichtigkeit dieser Behauptung beweist. Wenn es wirklich Vergasungsanstalten gegeben hätte, dann hätte man die ganze Welt mit Gewalt zur Besichtigung hingeschleift."
Chefartz Dr. Herbert Scholz berichtet:
"Wir wurden 1945 von den Russen als Kriegsgefangene in das ehemalige KZ Auschwitz gebracht. Wir verblieben dort einige Monate. Das Lager befand sich in landschaftlich schöner Lage und war in jeder Hinsicht - vor allem in hygienischer Hinsicht - bestens ausgestattet. Die sanitären Einrichtungen, insbesondere die Badeeinrichtungen, ließen keinen Wunsch offen. Die Unterkünfte befanden sich in ehemaligen Kasernen, die innen gut eingerichtet waren. Von Vergasungseinrichtungen bemerktenwirkeine S pur, obwohl wir mit größtem Interesse und eifrigst danach forschten und bei unseren Nachforschungen völlig unbehindert waren. Es gab keinerlei Vergasungseinrichtungen; es gab auch keinerlei gesprengte Objekte, die als solche angenommen werden konnten."
Das ist etwas was ich nicht verstehen kann. Die Russen hatten das perfekte Mittel in der Hand um die Schmach von Katyn zu rächen und sie haben es nicht genutzt. Keine Propaganda, keine Presse, nichts rein gar nichts machten sie. Das ist für mich ein starkes Indiz das alle Geschichten über das KL Auschwitz eine reine Lügengeschichte ist. Alles was man über das KL AUschwitz erführ und erfährt entwickelte sich langsam, so als ob man nicht genau wußte wieweit man gehen konnte und erst sogenannte Versuchsballons startete und als es nur Sprachlosigkeit darüber gab, wurden die Erzählungen wilder und wilder. Für diese Lügengeschichten bezahlen wir und unsere Kinder und Kindeskinder werden dafür auch noch bezahlen müssen. Sollte es wirklich Gerechtigkeit geben, dann werden all diese Lügner und Verräter am Deutschen Volk auf ewig in der Hölle schmoren.
English:
"Which proves the incorrectness of this statement. If it had really given institutes for gasification, then one would have hingeschleift." the whole world by force for inspection;"
Head physician Dr. Herbert Scholz reports:
" We were brought to 1945 of the Russians as prisoners of war into the former KZ Auschwitz. We remain there some months. The camp was in landschaftlich beautiful situation and was in the best way equipped in each regard - particularly in hygenic regard -. The sanitary mechanisms, in particular the bath mechanisms, did not leave a desire open. The accommodations were in former barracks, which were inside well furnished. Of gasification mechanisms remark effect one S purely, although we researched with largest interest and eifrigst after it and were completely unhindered with our investigations. There were no gasification mechanisms; there were also no blown up objects, which are accepted as such konnten."
That is something which I not understand cannot. The Russians had not used perfect the means in the hand around the disgrace from Katyn to avenge and them not have it. No press, they did not make no propaganda, for nothing purely nothing at all. That is for me a strong indication all stories over the KL the Auschwitz a pure lie history is. Everything which one over the KL AUschwitz erführ and experiences developed slowly, thus as if one did not know exactly to what extent one go could and only so-called sounding balloons and as it only Sprachlosigkeit started over it gave, became the narrations of savages and savages. For these lie stories pay we and our children and child children for it to also still pay will have. There should really be justice, then all these liars and traitor at the German people on eternal will scorch in hell.
Source: http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... r:lang_1de
I look forward to any other information on the Diplomat Dr. Herbert Scholz.
Thank You.
I include the following information on a Dr. Herbert Scholz who was apparentlycaptured by Russians. He was a physician according to the Bablefish translation of “Chefartz Dr. Herbert Scholz berichtet”
I read in some Google book summaries that the diplomat Scholz was a Dr. of Economics.
Below is the information and source on the physician Scholz for reference of other Herbert Scholz, although it may be a Holocaust denier’s site.
"Was die Unrichtigkeit dieser Behauptung beweist. Wenn es wirklich Vergasungsanstalten gegeben hätte, dann hätte man die ganze Welt mit Gewalt zur Besichtigung hingeschleift."
Chefartz Dr. Herbert Scholz berichtet:
"Wir wurden 1945 von den Russen als Kriegsgefangene in das ehemalige KZ Auschwitz gebracht. Wir verblieben dort einige Monate. Das Lager befand sich in landschaftlich schöner Lage und war in jeder Hinsicht - vor allem in hygienischer Hinsicht - bestens ausgestattet. Die sanitären Einrichtungen, insbesondere die Badeeinrichtungen, ließen keinen Wunsch offen. Die Unterkünfte befanden sich in ehemaligen Kasernen, die innen gut eingerichtet waren. Von Vergasungseinrichtungen bemerktenwirkeine S pur, obwohl wir mit größtem Interesse und eifrigst danach forschten und bei unseren Nachforschungen völlig unbehindert waren. Es gab keinerlei Vergasungseinrichtungen; es gab auch keinerlei gesprengte Objekte, die als solche angenommen werden konnten."
Das ist etwas was ich nicht verstehen kann. Die Russen hatten das perfekte Mittel in der Hand um die Schmach von Katyn zu rächen und sie haben es nicht genutzt. Keine Propaganda, keine Presse, nichts rein gar nichts machten sie. Das ist für mich ein starkes Indiz das alle Geschichten über das KL Auschwitz eine reine Lügengeschichte ist. Alles was man über das KL AUschwitz erführ und erfährt entwickelte sich langsam, so als ob man nicht genau wußte wieweit man gehen konnte und erst sogenannte Versuchsballons startete und als es nur Sprachlosigkeit darüber gab, wurden die Erzählungen wilder und wilder. Für diese Lügengeschichten bezahlen wir und unsere Kinder und Kindeskinder werden dafür auch noch bezahlen müssen. Sollte es wirklich Gerechtigkeit geben, dann werden all diese Lügner und Verräter am Deutschen Volk auf ewig in der Hölle schmoren.
English:
"Which proves the incorrectness of this statement. If it had really given institutes for gasification, then one would have hingeschleift." the whole world by force for inspection;"
Head physician Dr. Herbert Scholz reports:
" We were brought to 1945 of the Russians as prisoners of war into the former KZ Auschwitz. We remain there some months. The camp was in landschaftlich beautiful situation and was in the best way equipped in each regard - particularly in hygenic regard -. The sanitary mechanisms, in particular the bath mechanisms, did not leave a desire open. The accommodations were in former barracks, which were inside well furnished. Of gasification mechanisms remark effect one S purely, although we researched with largest interest and eifrigst after it and were completely unhindered with our investigations. There were no gasification mechanisms; there were also no blown up objects, which are accepted as such konnten."
That is something which I not understand cannot. The Russians had not used perfect the means in the hand around the disgrace from Katyn to avenge and them not have it. No press, they did not make no propaganda, for nothing purely nothing at all. That is for me a strong indication all stories over the KL the Auschwitz a pure lie history is. Everything which one over the KL AUschwitz erführ and experiences developed slowly, thus as if one did not know exactly to what extent one go could and only so-called sounding balloons and as it only Sprachlosigkeit started over it gave, became the narrations of savages and savages. For these lie stories pay we and our children and child children for it to also still pay will have. There should really be justice, then all these liars and traitor at the German people on eternal will scorch in hell.
Source: http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... r:lang_1de
I look forward to any other information on the Diplomat Dr. Herbert Scholz.
Thank You.
Re: SS-Oberführer Dr. Herbert Scholz, Lieselotte “Lilo” Scho
It was suggested to me tonight by a college history professor (ancient history his area of expertise) that there may have been books published of German Embassy personnel in the years prior to the war. His thought was that these individuals were generally very well educated, fluent in many languages and were usually trained to some degree in espionage techniques.
His thought was that these individuals would be promoted (as in marketed/propaganda) in the countries they were assigned to as well as in Germany.
Are there any forum readers who have come accross books related to embassy assignments either in Germany or the US.
I would appreciate any thoughts on this idea given to me by the history professor.
Thanks.
His thought was that these individuals would be promoted (as in marketed/propaganda) in the countries they were assigned to as well as in Germany.
Are there any forum readers who have come accross books related to embassy assignments either in Germany or the US.
I would appreciate any thoughts on this idea given to me by the history professor.
Thanks.
Re: SS-Oberführer Dr. Herbert Scholz, Lieselotte “Lilo” Scho
Ancestory. com shows information on the Scholz family from ship entry logs and Diplomat visas as follows:
Dr. Herbert Wilhelm Scholz, born Karlsruhe, Baden Wurtemberg, Germany (b. 1906)
Liselotte "Lilo" Scholz born Cologne, Germany (Koeln/RN), (b. 1910)
Her father was listed as "factory director" and was Nurenberg War Trial IG Farben defendant
Dr. Georg von Schnitzler, born Cologne, Germany (b. 1885) living in Frankfort in 1937
Dr. Herbert Wilhelm Scholz, born Karlsruhe, Baden Wurtemberg, Germany (b. 1906)
Liselotte "Lilo" Scholz born Cologne, Germany (Koeln/RN), (b. 1910)
Her father was listed as "factory director" and was Nurenberg War Trial IG Farben defendant
Dr. Georg von Schnitzler, born Cologne, Germany (b. 1885) living in Frankfort in 1937
Re: SS-Oberführer Dr. Herbert Scholz, Lieselotte “Lilo” Scho
Any new information on these individuals.
Condensed information from the above.
Any new information would be appreciated on SS-Oberführer Dr. Herbert Scholz, Liselotte “Lilo” Scholz, Kurt F. Ludwig
I have been doing research on espionage in the US prior to the US entry into WWII. I am interested in what happened to Dr. Herbert Scholz who was the German Secretary to the Ambassador Hans Luther from 1936-1940 in Washington, DC.
Scholz was the number two person in the German Embassy in Washington under Ambassador Hans Luther, former head of the Reich bank. Newspapers indicate Scholz was the Gestapo person in the embassy and he was a follower of Himmler and Heydrich. He later became consul at in Boston setting up an espionage network until they were deported out of the US at the start of WWII. He was appointed Consul to the Boston Consular office until deported in 1941 when all these offices were closed.
The Washington Post indicates he was arrested in 1946 hiding. I am interested in what happened to him during the war and after the war.
Internet source shows Dr. Scholz may have been a board member of a large German bank in the 1960/70’s as he had a doctorate in economics.
Dr. Herbert Scholz: German diplomat.
Born on 29-1-1906. Karlsruhe, Baden Wurttemberg, Germany
Member NSDAP (nr. 505.786).
Member Allgemeine-SS (nr. 70.360).
Promoted to SS-Sturmbannführer (Major and not Colonel) on 25-6-1933.
Promoted to SS-Obersturmbannführer (Lieutenant Colonel) on 9-11-1933.
Promoted to SS-Standartenführer (Colonel) on 20-4-1934.
On 10(mit wirkung von 21) December 1944 he got promoted to SS-Oberführer.
Gesandtschaftrat and secretary from the German ambassador in Washington D.C. between 1936 and 1940.
He was from ?? 1940 till ?? 1941 consul with the Boston Consular Office and he was a representative from the Gestapo in the USA.
He also did set up an espionage-sabotage network along the Boston waterfront and in 1941 he had to leave the States as did many other Germans.
During WW-2 he was apparently working at the German consulate in Budapest and at the same time he apparently also was employed for the Gestapo.
Ancestory.com shows information on the Scholz family from ship entry logs and Diplomat visas as follows:
Dr. Herbert Wilhelm Scholz, born Karlsruhe, Baden Wurttemberg, Germany (b. 1906)
Liselotte "Lilo" Scholz born Cologne, Germany (Koeln/RN), (b. 1910)
Her father was listed as "factory director" and was Nuremberg War Trial IG Farben defendant
Dr. Georg von Schnitzler, born Cologne, Germany (b. 1885) living in Frankfort in 1937
Any information on Dr. Herbert Scholz, Lilo Scholz and Kurt Ludwig would be appreciated. Any German readers may have access to German papers or digital newspapers that could supply additional information.
Condensed information from the above.
Any new information would be appreciated on SS-Oberführer Dr. Herbert Scholz, Liselotte “Lilo” Scholz, Kurt F. Ludwig
I have been doing research on espionage in the US prior to the US entry into WWII. I am interested in what happened to Dr. Herbert Scholz who was the German Secretary to the Ambassador Hans Luther from 1936-1940 in Washington, DC.
Scholz was the number two person in the German Embassy in Washington under Ambassador Hans Luther, former head of the Reich bank. Newspapers indicate Scholz was the Gestapo person in the embassy and he was a follower of Himmler and Heydrich. He later became consul at in Boston setting up an espionage network until they were deported out of the US at the start of WWII. He was appointed Consul to the Boston Consular office until deported in 1941 when all these offices were closed.
The Washington Post indicates he was arrested in 1946 hiding. I am interested in what happened to him during the war and after the war.
Internet source shows Dr. Scholz may have been a board member of a large German bank in the 1960/70’s as he had a doctorate in economics.
Dr. Herbert Scholz: German diplomat.
Born on 29-1-1906. Karlsruhe, Baden Wurttemberg, Germany
Member NSDAP (nr. 505.786).
Member Allgemeine-SS (nr. 70.360).
Promoted to SS-Sturmbannführer (Major and not Colonel) on 25-6-1933.
Promoted to SS-Obersturmbannführer (Lieutenant Colonel) on 9-11-1933.
Promoted to SS-Standartenführer (Colonel) on 20-4-1934.
On 10(mit wirkung von 21) December 1944 he got promoted to SS-Oberführer.
Gesandtschaftrat and secretary from the German ambassador in Washington D.C. between 1936 and 1940.
He was from ?? 1940 till ?? 1941 consul with the Boston Consular Office and he was a representative from the Gestapo in the USA.
He also did set up an espionage-sabotage network along the Boston waterfront and in 1941 he had to leave the States as did many other Germans.
During WW-2 he was apparently working at the German consulate in Budapest and at the same time he apparently also was employed for the Gestapo.
Ancestory.com shows information on the Scholz family from ship entry logs and Diplomat visas as follows:
Dr. Herbert Wilhelm Scholz, born Karlsruhe, Baden Wurttemberg, Germany (b. 1906)
Liselotte "Lilo" Scholz born Cologne, Germany (Koeln/RN), (b. 1910)
Her father was listed as "factory director" and was Nuremberg War Trial IG Farben defendant
Dr. Georg von Schnitzler, born Cologne, Germany (b. 1885) living in Frankfort in 1937
Any information on Dr. Herbert Scholz, Lilo Scholz and Kurt Ludwig would be appreciated. Any German readers may have access to German papers or digital newspapers that could supply additional information.
-
Berengaria
- Member
- Posts: 3
- Joined: 07 Jun 2011, 15:19
Re: SS-Oberführer Dr. Herbert Scholz, Lieselotte “Lilo” Scho
I am new to this forum and found it while looking up my uncle Fritz aka Kurt Friedrich Ludwig.
He was a double spy and spent time in Alcatraz during and after WWII, I have letters written by him from Alcatraz.
Tatner said he was a cousin to Scholz somehow, I am interested in finding out if this is so. My mother, Uncle Fritz's half sister is 86 years old, still alive and living near me now. She grew up in Nazi Germany and has many interesting tales to tell. Her maiden name was Eleanor Ludwig, her father (and Uncle Fritz's too) was Walter Ludwig.
I spent time with my Uncle Fritz and I was very fond of him and his last wife, Paula. He is gone now and his wife has entered a convent. He had children in Germany and America.
You can contact me via email: [email protected]
He was a double spy and spent time in Alcatraz during and after WWII, I have letters written by him from Alcatraz.
Tatner said he was a cousin to Scholz somehow, I am interested in finding out if this is so. My mother, Uncle Fritz's half sister is 86 years old, still alive and living near me now. She grew up in Nazi Germany and has many interesting tales to tell. Her maiden name was Eleanor Ludwig, her father (and Uncle Fritz's too) was Walter Ludwig.
I spent time with my Uncle Fritz and I was very fond of him and his last wife, Paula. He is gone now and his wife has entered a convent. He had children in Germany and America.
You can contact me via email: [email protected]
-
Berengaria
- Member
- Posts: 3
- Joined: 07 Jun 2011, 15:19
Re: SS-Oberführer Dr. Herbert Scholz, Lieselotte “Lilo” Scho
Kurt Friedrich Ludwig’s father (my grandfather) was Walter Ludwig (born May 28, 1881 in Coburg-Bavaria). His mother was Wilhelmine Giehse whom his father Walter Ludwig married, on June 16, 1902 in New York.
My mother (who was Kurt F. Ludwig’s half-sister) said Walter (her father) had well off parents and they sent him to America because they had some land or homes there because Walter didn't know what he wanted to do with his life at that time.
Kurt F. Ludwig (who was my Uncle Fritz) was born Dec. 4, 1904 in Fremont, Ohio. Some papers from Germany have the word evangelical in parentheses afterwards which I would take to be Lutheran as I know my mother’s family on her dads' side was Lutheran but on her mother's side was Catholic.
Uncle Fritz had a sister also who was born April 28, 1907 in West Hoboken, USA and her name was Margaret Gertrude. I knew her as Aunt Mutz and she died in 1995.
In 1908 Walter Ludwig and his family went back to Germany.
POST WAR –
Apparently Uncle Fritz was able to send care packages from Alcatraz to his family (which at the time included my mother) in Germany after the war, which she said were very much appreciated. My mother said there was cocoa or chocolate in them which they hadn't had since before the war.
Fritz would never write USA on his envelopes in letters to us when I was a kid, he wrote North America; probably because America deported him. But he did get BOTH American and German social security for all his retirement years right up until his death.
My dad said that when Uncle Fritz visited them when we were stationed in Germany he would take the beers my Dad got for him and put one in each corner of the living room and wait an hour or so and then drink them one by one.
Uncle Fritz collected stamps and gave my brother beautiful stamp albums and some fabulous stamps. Many were WWII vintage with Hitler's face, I remember seeing them and some had swastika's on them. They are no longer in the family however.
When I was 17 in 1977 my mother sent me for the summer to Aunt Mutz in Munich. I went one day with Uncle Fritz to the Deutsches Museum on the River Isar and after visiting it we walked across a bridge over the river. Uncle Fritz was going on very animatedly about something. I, being 17, was a bit bored but then noticed, after we crossed the bridge, a building to the left that was all boarded up. This was unusual for Munich and besides, the building looked vaguely familiar. I was already a big reader of WWII literature and all of a sudden I said to Fritz, "Munich Beer Hall Putsch, or "the Putsch" and he was very excited and nodded and said “yes, yes”. He was describing how they went across the bridge and the thrill of it all - it sounded like he had been there and he very well possibly was as he was 19 years old then.
That summer I also spent a day going around the Starnberg (or Ammersee) lake with him and his (second wife) Paula and we walked a lot and had an excellent meal in a small place. Paula kept hinting all day how much she wanted a boat, just a wooden row boat but Fritz just quietly ignored her hints.
My brother on one of his trips over there (he speaks a bit of German) said he spent some days with Uncle Fritz too and once they parted and Fritz had a briefcase with him. Curious as to what he was up to, he followed Fritz to the Ratskeller near Marienplatz and he saw Fritz go into a room in back. My brother sat down and ordered something and got to chatting with the waiter. He asked the waiter about the fellows back there and the waiter said they were old Nazi's who came in once a month or week to relive their old glory days.
I know Uncle Fritz was dead by 1987 when I visited my Aunt Mutz and Aunt Paula because we visited the beautifully tended grave. Paula quite adored him.
My mother (who was Kurt F. Ludwig’s half-sister) said Walter (her father) had well off parents and they sent him to America because they had some land or homes there because Walter didn't know what he wanted to do with his life at that time.
Kurt F. Ludwig (who was my Uncle Fritz) was born Dec. 4, 1904 in Fremont, Ohio. Some papers from Germany have the word evangelical in parentheses afterwards which I would take to be Lutheran as I know my mother’s family on her dads' side was Lutheran but on her mother's side was Catholic.
Uncle Fritz had a sister also who was born April 28, 1907 in West Hoboken, USA and her name was Margaret Gertrude. I knew her as Aunt Mutz and she died in 1995.
In 1908 Walter Ludwig and his family went back to Germany.
POST WAR –
Apparently Uncle Fritz was able to send care packages from Alcatraz to his family (which at the time included my mother) in Germany after the war, which she said were very much appreciated. My mother said there was cocoa or chocolate in them which they hadn't had since before the war.
Fritz would never write USA on his envelopes in letters to us when I was a kid, he wrote North America; probably because America deported him. But he did get BOTH American and German social security for all his retirement years right up until his death.
My dad said that when Uncle Fritz visited them when we were stationed in Germany he would take the beers my Dad got for him and put one in each corner of the living room and wait an hour or so and then drink them one by one.
Uncle Fritz collected stamps and gave my brother beautiful stamp albums and some fabulous stamps. Many were WWII vintage with Hitler's face, I remember seeing them and some had swastika's on them. They are no longer in the family however.
When I was 17 in 1977 my mother sent me for the summer to Aunt Mutz in Munich. I went one day with Uncle Fritz to the Deutsches Museum on the River Isar and after visiting it we walked across a bridge over the river. Uncle Fritz was going on very animatedly about something. I, being 17, was a bit bored but then noticed, after we crossed the bridge, a building to the left that was all boarded up. This was unusual for Munich and besides, the building looked vaguely familiar. I was already a big reader of WWII literature and all of a sudden I said to Fritz, "Munich Beer Hall Putsch, or "the Putsch" and he was very excited and nodded and said “yes, yes”. He was describing how they went across the bridge and the thrill of it all - it sounded like he had been there and he very well possibly was as he was 19 years old then.
That summer I also spent a day going around the Starnberg (or Ammersee) lake with him and his (second wife) Paula and we walked a lot and had an excellent meal in a small place. Paula kept hinting all day how much she wanted a boat, just a wooden row boat but Fritz just quietly ignored her hints.
My brother on one of his trips over there (he speaks a bit of German) said he spent some days with Uncle Fritz too and once they parted and Fritz had a briefcase with him. Curious as to what he was up to, he followed Fritz to the Ratskeller near Marienplatz and he saw Fritz go into a room in back. My brother sat down and ordered something and got to chatting with the waiter. He asked the waiter about the fellows back there and the waiter said they were old Nazi's who came in once a month or week to relive their old glory days.
I know Uncle Fritz was dead by 1987 when I visited my Aunt Mutz and Aunt Paula because we visited the beautifully tended grave. Paula quite adored him.
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randomreader
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Re: SS-Oberführer Dr. Herbert Scholz, Lieselotte “Lilo” Scho
This Dr. Herbert Scholz in question appears to be the same Dr. Herbert W. Scholz who became a secretary (Schriftfuehrer) of the German-Japanese Society in late 1933. He was listed as belonging to the liaison staff of the Nazi party (Verbindungsstab der NSDAP). At the time H. Scholz was an SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer, as well as Aussenpolitischer Referent im Ministeramt der Obersten SA-Fuehrung. His address is given as Wilhelmstr. 63, Berlin. It is also said that at the time he assisted deputy Fuehrer Rudolf Hess in foreign affairs.
I too would like to find out if these Scholz'es were the same person.
I too would like to find out if these Scholz'es were the same person.
Re: SS-Oberführer Dr. Herbert Scholz, Lieselotte “Lilo” Scho
My original posts was for a Dr. Herbert Wilhelm Scholz, so I believe we are talking about the same individual. I am interested in any additional information you have on him.
I hope to get to Washington this Fall and visit the National Archives to see what else that I may be able to find on Dr. Scholz and his wife
I hope to get to Washington this Fall and visit the National Archives to see what else that I may be able to find on Dr. Scholz and his wife
Re: SS-Oberführer Dr. Herbert Scholz, Lieselotte “Lilo” Scho
It has been some time since I posted information on Dr. Herbert Scholz. I am still interested in additional information him and below I have a summmary from above posts.
Dr. Herbert Wilhelm Scholz: German diplomat.
Born on 29-1-1906. Karlsruhe, Baden Wurttemberg, Germany
Member NSDAP (nr. 505.786).
Member Allgemeine-SS (nr. 70.360).
Promoted to SS-Sturmbannführer (Major) on 25-6-1933.
Promoted to SS-Obersturmbannführer (Lieutenant Colonel) on 9-11-1933.
Promoted to SS-Standartenführer (Colonel) on 20-4-1934.
On 10(mit wirkung von 21) December 1944 he got promoted to SS-Oberführer.
Gesandtschaftrat and secretary from the German ambassador in Washington D.C. between 1936 and 1940.
He was from ?? 1940 till ?? 1941 consul with the Boston Consular Office and he was a representative from the Gestapo in the USA.
He also did set up an espionage-sabotage network along the Boston waterfront and in 1941 he had to leave the States as did many other Germans.
During WW-2 he was apparently working at the German consulate in Budapest and at the same time he apparently also was employed for the Gestapo.
Ancestory.com shows information on the Scholz family from ship entry logs and Diplomat visas as follows:
Dr. Herbert Wilhelm Scholz, born Karlsruhe, Baden Wurttemberg, Germany (b. 1906)
Liselotte "Lilo" Scholz born Cologne, Germany (Koeln/RN), (b. 1910)
Her father was listed as "factory director" and was Nuremberg War Trial IG Farben defendant
Dr. Georg von Schnitzler, born Cologne, Germany (b. 1885) living in Frankfort in 1937
Children Wilhelm and Manfred
The Washington Post indicates he was arrested in 1946 hiding. I am interested in what happened to him during the war and after the war.
Internet source shows Dr. Scholz may have been a board member of a large German bank in the 1960/70’s as he had a doctorate in economics.
Any information on his activities in Hungary especially related to shipping of prisoners or Jewish people out of Budapest would be appreciated. Also any information on what he did after the war, date of death, military personnel files etc. are of interest.
Thanks in Advance
Dr. Herbert Wilhelm Scholz: German diplomat.
Born on 29-1-1906. Karlsruhe, Baden Wurttemberg, Germany
Member NSDAP (nr. 505.786).
Member Allgemeine-SS (nr. 70.360).
Promoted to SS-Sturmbannführer (Major) on 25-6-1933.
Promoted to SS-Obersturmbannführer (Lieutenant Colonel) on 9-11-1933.
Promoted to SS-Standartenführer (Colonel) on 20-4-1934.
On 10(mit wirkung von 21) December 1944 he got promoted to SS-Oberführer.
Gesandtschaftrat and secretary from the German ambassador in Washington D.C. between 1936 and 1940.
He was from ?? 1940 till ?? 1941 consul with the Boston Consular Office and he was a representative from the Gestapo in the USA.
He also did set up an espionage-sabotage network along the Boston waterfront and in 1941 he had to leave the States as did many other Germans.
During WW-2 he was apparently working at the German consulate in Budapest and at the same time he apparently also was employed for the Gestapo.
Ancestory.com shows information on the Scholz family from ship entry logs and Diplomat visas as follows:
Dr. Herbert Wilhelm Scholz, born Karlsruhe, Baden Wurttemberg, Germany (b. 1906)
Liselotte "Lilo" Scholz born Cologne, Germany (Koeln/RN), (b. 1910)
Her father was listed as "factory director" and was Nuremberg War Trial IG Farben defendant
Dr. Georg von Schnitzler, born Cologne, Germany (b. 1885) living in Frankfort in 1937
Children Wilhelm and Manfred
The Washington Post indicates he was arrested in 1946 hiding. I am interested in what happened to him during the war and after the war.
Internet source shows Dr. Scholz may have been a board member of a large German bank in the 1960/70’s as he had a doctorate in economics.
Any information on his activities in Hungary especially related to shipping of prisoners or Jewish people out of Budapest would be appreciated. Also any information on what he did after the war, date of death, military personnel files etc. are of interest.
Thanks in Advance